Father Dungy Can Save Bucs
December 8th, 2011
OK, Joe’s going to try not to go overboard here but this has hit a nerve.
And it’s time to be real, like it or not, pleasant or not.
For whatever reason — there are many — current Bucs coach Raheem Morris has never been accepted as the Bucs coach to a large segment of fans. Whether it was his inexperience as an NFL coach, his chest-bumping players while down by 20, his seemingly playing favorites with certain players or the fact that, as a defensive coordinator, his defenses have been more offensive than stout.
Again, let Joe be clear: He’s not anti-Raheem and vividly remembers how he should have been NFL coach of the year last season and lost in a tiebreaker to the eventual Super Bowl champion Packers thanks to a robbery of a call against Kellen Winslow. Whether Morris returns next year as a lame duck coach, whether he is granted an extension or whether he is jettisoned next month, Joe has no idea but believes he will return.
As the Bucs season has circled the drain this year, the anti-Raheem crowd has recently gone from vocal to hysterical, already maxing out their credit cards booking U-Hauls to help Morris move out of town at the earliest moment.
The chorus of “Fire Raheem” is so loud it has reached the ears of ESPN’s Pat Yasinskas. Apparently, members of the pen and mic believe there may be a coaching change. This is the focus of Yasinskas’s recent offering on ESPN.com.
Yasinskas believes there is the man who can save the Bucs, and that man “on the planet” is Father Dungy.
One man who, with the simple nod of his head, would sell out Raymond James Stadium instantly, stop the losing, put an end to just about all the trouble off the field and give the Bucs credibility and respectability with their fans and across the league.
His name is Tony Dungy.
Let me be clear: I’m not saying it will happen. Raheem Morris is still coaching the Bucs, and the team already has picked up his contract option for 2012. But the Bucs are on a six-game losing streak and seem to be in total chaos. Dungy seems happy away from coaching and may not ever want to get back into the business.
I’m not saying the Glazer family, which owns the Buccaneers, has decided to fire Morris. And if that decision does come, I’m not saying the Glazers would pursue Dungy.
With all due respect — and Joe is sincere when he writes that — Joe cannot disagree more.
This has long been a pet peeve of Joe’s, this hero worship of Father Dungy. Why exactly?
Part of the reason Yasinskas is of this mind is the lack of warm bodies in the stadium along Dale Mabry Highway. There are many reasons for this. Part of it is the economy, obviously. Part of it is the anti-Raheem element, part of it is (which Joe simply doesn’t get) the suspicions of many Bucs fans who believe (wrongly) that Team Glazer syphons off every nickel to that friggin’ kickball team in England.
Part of it is the fantasy football/video game mentality of the culture that believes building through the draft is a con, no matter that this method is exactly how the Green Bay Packers and Pittsburgh Steelers have constructed their teams. Part of it is the simple fact that watching the game at home on HDTV is in many ways more pleasurable and certainly more economical.
(Please remember that there were thousands of empty seats when Chucky was coaching.)
First off, let’s lay all the cards on the table. Are we to believe if Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy took over the Bucs, the team couldn’t rebound? Are we to believe that if Kevin Colbert and Mike Tomlin ran the Bucs the team wouldn’t rebound? Are we to believe Bill Belicheat couldn’t change the fortunes of squad?
Please.
Did Father Dungy draft Derrick Brooks, John Lynch and Warren Sapp, the cornerstone troika of the Bucs’ glory years? No.
Did Father Dungy hoist a Lombardi Trophy aloft in victory while Bucs coach? No.
Let’s not deify Father Dungy, come on. Father Dungy’s postseason record is similar to the immortal Jerry Glanville. Father Dungy had arguably the greatest quarterback in NFL history with perhaps one of the greatest offenses in NFL history with a pretty good defense and he still only got to the Super Bowl once. Belicheat coached rings around this guy.
People seem to forget when Jim Irsay hired Father Dungy that in no uncertain terms he was to leave his mitts off the offense and let Tom Moore run the Dolts offense.
People seem to forget that Sapp and Lynch themselves said on the Bucs segment of “America’s Game” that Dungy didn’t do a great job here. One could argue Father Dungy’s Sid Luckman-vision of offense cost the Bucs a pair of rings and had it not been for the stellar play of Shaun King and Mike Alstott against Washington, Father Dungy would have won a grand total of one playoff game in five postseason berths.
Just why is this guy Father Dungy defied around here? Because he’s a nice guy? Hey, Raheem Morris is a nice guy too. How come people aren’t throwing rose petals at his feet?
Not unlike Jim Harbaugh with the 49ers, Father Dungy was in the right place at the right time. The Bucs — thanks to Rich McKay — had some stellar drafts and right when Father Dungy shows up, those draft picks were ready to break out.
How on earth did Bill Walsh win any Super Bowls without the aid of Father Dungy?
Joe can see why one could come to the conclusion Father Dungy running the team (not coaching the team) could change the team’s fortunes. Joe has written before that Father Dungy would be a wonderful front office type. His knack for picking coaches was uncanny.
But to offer that only Father Dungy can save the Bucs is disingenuous to the rest of the league.
December 8th, 2011 at 3:59 pm
All Dungy ever did was gift wrap a Super Bowl for Gruden and then go on to win one for himself in Indy. Nah, Dungy couldn’t help the Bucs at all. Nothing to see here, fans…just move along down the Kool-Aid line and drink your next cup.
Are you f’ing serious, Joe? Dungy would be an all-world upgrade compared to the stiffs that currently roam the Bucs’ sideline. Yasinkas didn’t say the “only man”, he said “one man”. And I agree that Dungy would be “one man” that would turn this debacle around. There are several, yes, but Dungy would be welcome here with open arms.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
the joe gibbs experiment v2? no thanks…
great article joe, once again. keep churnin’ em out!
December 8th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
kill your idols.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
Please, please, please. I will buy tickets tomorrow.
All it takes is to have a Rah Rah Morris coach your NFL team for a few years to make you realize how great you had it with Dungy and Gruden.
I was ready for both to go when they were fired, little did I know then that the owners would end up placing someone so totally clueless and incompetent in the position that I would long for either of these two men back.
I would absolutely take Sam Wyche again over this debacle. I believe that it is impossible to coach a team worse than we are seeing. They would look as prepared if they didnt practice. They would look as disciplined if they coached themselves.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
Joe, you fail to give credit where credit is due. Ask yourself where was this franchise before Dungy arrived. True Bucs fans will always acknowledge that Dungy not only energized a franchise and fan base but also the community as well. The article also points to the sharp distinction in coaches as to how they handle player discipline which is an ongoing crisis in the Morris era and evident on the field every Sunday. His only fault was his loyalty which is admirable. I’d give anything to go back to Bucball, strong defense and a running game to finish off the opponent in the 4th quarter.Ask yourself what has Raheem established during his tenure. I find it ironic the Glazers fired Dungy for losses IN THE PLAYOFFS and won’t fire Morris for a regressing, effortless team.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:22 pm
plbuc:
Not saying Raheem is the next Chuck Noll. Just trying to be fair.
Dungy was able to get from Point-A to Point-B but was not able to close the deal.
The Bucs are hoping Raheem gets from Point-A to Point-B. Clearly, the jury is still out.
Wonder if the cries for Raheem’s head would be so loud if Kellen Winslow doesn’t have a touchdown stolen from him against Detroit last year?
People seem to forget there was dancing in the streets when Chucky was hired.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Joe, you wrote: But to offer that only Father Dungy can save the Bucs is disingenuous to the rest of the league.
Where did Yasinskas say ONLY Dungy? Also, you said there were empty seats with Gruden. Maybe so, but somebody had paid for them to be empty, unlike the last couple of years. Big difference!
December 8th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
lightningbuc:
This rant is not directed at Yasinskas in any way, shape or form. This is a rant against the theory that Father Dungy has some Midas touch, which many in this area cling too.
Now if we are talking about hiring Father Dungy to a front office position, Joe is all ears.
Hiring Father Dungy as a coach, aside from not a sure thing to bring playoff wins, won’t all of a sudden make people’s homes magically financially solvent, or make HDTVs inoperable.
There are MANY reasons why the Bucs are not selling out and it’s not just because of Raheem.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
I was listening to an interview on BSPN with Tony about a week ago and they asked him if there was any way he would come back to coach and he told them absolutely not. Now…. with that being said the Bucs are right in his hometown and we would ALL welcome him back and pray that he would take an offer but who knows stranger things have occurred. Your riht on the money Joe, Tony is the guy to fix this mess and all of the character issues we now have. I just wonder if the Glazers ticked him off too bad and that might be the case.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:38 pm
I’m not giving up on Raheem.
That being said, bringing Dungy aboard would do nothing but help this team. Football aside, as a Tampa native, I’d love to have him simply because he has chosen to live here long after he stopped being paid to do it. I was stoked over the Gruden hiring, simply because he grew up here.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
Joe two steps need to be taken to improve attendance.
1) Glazer boys come down off their thrown and promise that the days of shortchanging the Bucs are over. High priced free agents are not brought in in droves like the Eagles but are definitely considered and money once again is not an option. (Kind of like they run Man U)
2) Raheem is shown the door and they hire either Jeff Fisher Bill Cowher or Tony Dungy.
Hey its a pipe dream and will never happen but if they want to fill the stands and turnaround perception that is my plan!!!
December 8th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
Id be happy to have Dungy back.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Sacrilege Joe. Dingy was an awesome coach. This is almost as bad as when that Optimist guy tried to tell us that Cowher was a lousy coach. Except that was ridiculous.
December 8th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Dungy would not stoop that low to come back here after we that wonderful send off he had.
I cant think of any coach thet can come here and not take at least two years to turn things around.
Sanfran Cisco is a fluke and its rare what is happening over their.
December 8th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
How many HCs have won a SB as HC with more than one team?
None.
There’s your answer.
December 8th, 2011 at 5:18 pm
Tony Dungy…booooorrrriiinng
December 8th, 2011 at 5:22 pm
Dungy? Olsen’s dink and dunk offense is too progressive for him.
Please people, think.
December 8th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Are you proud of the bucs? Isn’t that the bottom line. Are you ok with your kids wearing some of there jerseys. Joe, please give me the list of bucs players and coaches who got in trouble when dungy was here that was not let go. Now give me the list of players and intoxicated coaches are Raheem. Ticket sales will jump when you ignight a community!! You can’t do it in a instance. You get players and coaches that are professionals and you slowly build until you have the foundation. Dungy built a foundation to win a superbowl on and no, he would not have won one in Tampa!! But, if your looking for a man who will build a foundation that we can be proud of and ignight a community, it would be foolish not to look at dungy. I am no dungy fan at all as I remember those 2 playoff games in Philly– The question is are you proud of the foundation of this team. Mark Dominick and Raheem Morris preached this the 1st year. How would he and Raheem grade out?
December 8th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
Someone needs to tell the Lightning that the economy is affecting ticket sales because they are darn-near selling out every night.
December 8th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
@MT
Nice one. Thats exactly what Dungy did. He built a team that only the Tampa Bay area was proud of but the players were a big part of that community. He built a strong team centered and loved by all of Tampa Bay.
It was respected by the NFL as well and D that was feared by other teams.
We have none of that and at this time there is no indication we are heading in that same direction.
December 8th, 2011 at 5:39 pm
I meant to say ‘not only’
December 8th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
If the Bucs have any inclination to maintain the status quo, this could be a good idea, otherwise, bad idea and I don’t see Dungy as coach. At one time there was conversation about hiring consultants to help get the team back on track.
I didn’t like the consultant idea because it lacked both accountability and authority. But I do like the idea of a short-term position with line responsibility that goes away after 2 or 3 years with functions similar to Holmgren at Cleveland and Parcells at Miami.
This preserves the integrity of the current strategy, allows Dungy to maintain the role of intermediary and move on when things are moving in the right direction, and allows the Glazers to stay within the budget for normal football operations.
There is a sort of “je ne sais quoi” between Dungy and the Bucs because some good things were accomplished during his tenure even though he didn’t win a SuperBowl, but I don’t know where things stand between he and the Glazers on an emotional level given the way he was released.
This could have some benefits for everybody involved and hope for the sake of the Bucs the idea gains some traction!
December 8th, 2011 at 5:51 pm
Joe ranting about Dungy or Joe ranting about Winlow’s “stolen” td. Not sure what it is but this article has them both.
December 8th, 2011 at 6:07 pm
THANK YOU JOE for linking that America’s Game video. I’ve been searching for that for forever, what an awesome, awesome video. Bucs fans NEED that kind of football back here. We need guys WANTING to play here like Keyshawn did. Brings back so many memories that video does.
December 8th, 2011 at 6:08 pm
Father Dungy??? Rock Star Dominick?????
Guess we should start referring to you as Third Person Joe.LOL!!!!
December 8th, 2011 at 6:10 pm
All Dungy ever did was gift wrap a Super Bowl for Gruden and then go on to win one for himself in Indy.
_________________________________
This is a complete fallacy. We were never going to win a Super Bowl with Dungy, never. Period. Full stop. Fact. End of discussion. Before you tell me I’m wrong, both Warren Sapp and John Lynch said the same thing in the greatest game.
Absence makes the heart grow fonder but does anyone remember how inept Dungy’s offenses were for god sakes? We could barely get first downs and wasted the peak of our defense because Dungy was too loyal to horrible OC’s. When Gruden came in he replaced half the roster (over 20 players) and while the offense started slowly out of the gates, they were very respectable by the end of the year.
I am with you completely Joe, sure Dungy is a great guy and a class act but I don’t understand the hero worship.
If Dungy was hired it would definitely be a step backwards in the wrong direction.
December 8th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
Oops sorry Joe I only read half of the post before I had to go on a rant. Didn’t see you mentioned the Americas game already.
December 8th, 2011 at 6:15 pm
none of that matters, people don’t spend their money to go to games because it is not worth spending on this this team. The economy being bad is a bunch of BS the economy is worse in many places but yet they fill up the stands just look at Detroit for the past few years it has been a mediocre franchise unwilling to spend money or do anything to make it more attractive to the community. Instead of hiring the old stale holier than thou Dungy hire someone like Rob Ryan at least he has experience is fun and may produce a winner
December 8th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
none of that matters, people don’t spend their money to go to games because it is not worth spending on this this team. The economy being bad is a bunch of BS the economy is worse in many places but yet they fill up the stands just look at Detroit where people are now going to games but the BUCS for the past few years has been a mediocre franchise unwilling to spend money or do anything to make it more attractive to the community. Instead of hiring the old stale holier than thou Dungy hire someone like Rob Ryan at least he has experience is fun and may produce a winner
December 8th, 2011 at 6:19 pm
Couldn’t disagree with you more Joe. While I’m not part of the “Dungy is a god” crowd, definitely think this team would be farther along and more focused if he were running the show. And also think you’re short-changing the job Harbaugh has done in SF. While he does have some talented players in spots, to be a first year head coach with no off-season and have the team playing the way they are deserves a little more respect in my opinion. Definitely a little more to it than simply “right place, right time” imo.
December 8th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
You know what Sapp said in that film?
Sapp “we realized that if everyone had there gaps and did what they were suppsed to do, we can win.”
AMAZING!!
December 8th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
Keep Raheem, pay Monte whatever it takes to come back, Hire Saints or lions QB coach as OC and draft more defense! Packers still and always suck!
December 8th, 2011 at 6:37 pm
I’m in, where do I sign
December 8th, 2011 at 6:43 pm
I believe the offer to Tony Dungy should be Team President. Put him in charge of all football operations and have the coach and GM report to him. Let him decide whether to keep the coach and GM. Don’t bring him back as a coach but let him to decide the entire direction of the franchise. That would put us in the right direction and bring respectability back to this team.
December 8th, 2011 at 6:43 pm
pat loves his tony dungy! I remeber last year he named him nfc coach of the last 20 years (even though the south started in 02) ahead of gruden and payton who won superbowls.
December 8th, 2011 at 6:51 pm
Agree with Joe 100% on this one. I was so happy when the fired Dungy. His teams underacheived during the early part of the season almost every year. Only to get hot towards the end, make the playoffs and lose to the eagles. 99 was the only exception because that was the best defense ever.
December 8th, 2011 at 6:54 pm
While I think hiring Dungy as a coach is ridiculous, i think it would be smart to bring him in as some type of consultant, or a CEO of operations, because the glazer boys have no idea what they are doing, or they just don’t care.
December 8th, 2011 at 6:54 pm
Seriously,
We could hire Dungy in the front office, like Nolan Ryan for the Rangers, AND ALSO bring in a big name coach to coach the team like Jeff Fischer or Andy Reid or Bill Cowher.
Do you think they would feel threatened by Dungy in a president role?
December 8th, 2011 at 6:58 pm
Pat Yasinkas is a dumbass that lives here and hates the Bucs, he should move to Charlotte again.
Dungy didn’t win a big game here, if you asked me he underachieved with the defenses we had.
Again young team going thru growing pains. My only change is give Olson the boot.
By the way Joe I want to commend you for being cautious and not taking side when reporting, specially with the Blount money grab. You are the only bias football source in the Tampa area. Keep it up.
December 8th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
why is tony dungy beloved in tampa?
well before he took over in 96 the bucs had not had a winning season for 15 years. FIFTEEN YEARS
he had a 56/46 record and four playoff appearances. won division in 99 and six points from super bowl.
in the 20 years before tony the bucs had a total of tbree playoff teams.
the man invented and developed one of the best defenses in nfl history wbich led to our only championship.
ask the players there for tbe turnaround they all credit tony dungy.
great coach/great man. pretty simple.
comparing rah to tony is laughable.
December 8th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
The bucs havd been behind more than any NFL team this year: 475 minutes total, the 0-12 Colts are a distant second at 433. This indicates that overall, the Colts without Manning, have been more competitive than our Yucks.
I was inclined to pick the bucs Sunday, but the deeper I analyze the stats – it is clear that this team is lucky to have 4 wins. These Yucks are worst in pass yards allowed per play, last in yards allowed per play (may set a decades old record), next to last in rushing tds allowed.
This may be one of the worst defenses in NFL history!
December 8th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
Nano:
Thanks for the compliments. The critical trait of a solid journalist is to be objective. 🙂
December 8th, 2011 at 7:29 pm
I’d Settle for Ray Perkins right now!
December 8th, 2011 at 7:31 pm
Heck of a piece. I totally agree with every inch of this writing. Great work.
December 8th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
Thanks Pros.
December 8th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
Honestly, what we really need to do is hire Monte Kiffin as a defensive consultant with a NEW HC and DC. I’d take a new OC too. Norv Turner anyone?
December 8th, 2011 at 7:47 pm
alrite never this would never come up again , but since it has lets go there .people talk but there was never an out cry when dungy got fired gruden won a super bowl with at least seven first year starters on offence ,dudley, mccardell , pitman,jerv, ect, not to mention he had a great d cord in kiffin i had the pleasure of asking dungy about this very thing and he said rather quickly you have to give credit to the man on the sideline,oh and how long did it take him to win with payton manning.the buc need to move forward with a new cast and change their way of thinking about veterans now please move on past this . we love you joe …let it go dungy should have won at least two superbowls with the talent he had here !
December 8th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
Trailing more than any team by alot … OUCH
Joe,
You got to dig up Jim Bates stats compared to the Current Defensive stats .. It cant be that far off
December 8th, 2011 at 7:56 pm
Bring back Dungy.
Best coach in the Franchise’s History.
Gruden would have never won the Superbowl without having Dungy’s D.
The Bucs need a big time coach to come in and get these goons (players) in line.
Rah Rah just isnt selling anything to anyone, whether it is seats in the stands, or demanding a consistent effort from his players.
Rah needs to get going, he can take his #31 Defense back to the BIG 12 at K- State.
Bottom line, if the Glazers give a Rat’s bootay about this team they will step up and do something.
December 8th, 2011 at 7:57 pm
hey foxworth, do you live in polk county?
December 8th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
oh yea and were really super bowl bound with this guy.
not even a wildcard in three years. absolutely horrific defense which he coordinates.
gruden did a magnificent job of coaching in 2002. but no way do they win without that defense tony developed.
tony had great credentials when he took over. unlike rah.
its a ludicrous comparison.
December 8th, 2011 at 8:03 pm
“How many HCs have won a SB as HC with more than one team?
None.
There’s your answer”
Enough with that dumb@ss fact!! That doesn’t mean it won’t ever happen. It all has to do with the players you bring in, who your coaching staff is, etc..I’m really sick of people bringing that stupid thing up everytime we talk about coaches.
December 8th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
Still believe they should try to get Dungy to head up football operations. We have a HC, DC and GM who have no experience in their positions. I am rooting for Raheem but the Bucs can’t wait to let him grow into his position. The owners probably won’t extend him based on the way the year has gone. How much better a coach would Raheem be with Dungy mentoring him, assuming he would want to keep him? I think he could help Raheem enormously. And if Dungy thought Raheem and or Dom has to go, so be it.
December 8th, 2011 at 8:06 pm
Patrick:
No, it doesn’t mean it will never happen. But that “dumb@ss fact!!” just means a team is wasting its time. Years in fact.
December 8th, 2011 at 8:15 pm
I second Jvatos request. I think Rah defense is worse than the Jim Bates experiment. We are that bad Joe. What do the stats say????
December 8th, 2011 at 8:17 pm
Also to all the Dungy haters please tell me you would rather have him than keep Raheem. Anyone who would rather keep Raheem than bring in Dungy to clean up this mess is seriously mentally ill.
December 8th, 2011 at 8:19 pm
Yasinkas is on point. Having Dungy involved would restore credibility to the organization and confidence to the fans. Joe, be serious. Having Coach Morris lead this team reminds me of Bill Murray leaing the platoon in the movie stripes. We should beg Dungy to return and welcome him with open arms.
December 8th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
then fisher is perfect he never won a super bowl.
wasting time is hiring morris in first place.
December 8th, 2011 at 8:22 pm
1st, the guy who said i don’t want another Joe Gibbs V2 is right on. It’s just better not to go there. And I am pretty sure Tony Dungy realizes this point.
What 95% of Buc fans fail to do when the Gruden vs Dungy arguement comes up (which should be long overwith by now I hope) is that Monte Kiffin was the one guy who was there through it all coaching the best defense in Bucs history. I know people acknowledge him, but in reality… Monte Kiffin is > Dungy + Gruden.
How can anyone argue against this?
Monte Kiffin was here from craddle to grave of the Buc’s defense being the NFL top 10 defense for years on in.
Again,
Monte Kiffin > Dungy+Gruden
Read em and weap!
December 8th, 2011 at 9:29 pm
JOE – You don’t get Father Dungy and his effect on the Tampa Buc fans do you? Much in the same way that LOTS of sports writers don’t get the effect that Tebow has on the Bronco’s.
It the PERSONAL dislike that gets in the way of seeing things as they REALLY ARE.
JOE, If the Glazers hired Tony Dungy to coach the team in 2012 the blackouts would be gone. Take that to the bank.
But before that happens:
FIRE COACH RAH…..FIRE COACH RAH……DO IT NOW
December 8th, 2011 at 9:49 pm
Mr.Lucky:
Yup. Joe doesn’t like coaches from the Marty Chokenheimer tree who constantly gag in the playoffs and have offenses so pathetic that grade school coaches laugh.
December 8th, 2011 at 9:50 pm
Whoever posted that they should keep Morris and hire Kiffin back should be on the comedy show. Can you just Imagine Kiffin listening to Raheem’s 1000 mph rants? That would last all of 30 seconds. Dungy was fired because he couldn’t get it done with all that talent. He’s a nice guy, but not what we need. We need a Fisher or Cowher in here, along with their hand-picked staff. I wanted Kiffin as HC when they hired Gruden. But all this is moot anyway, because the Glazer boys are in this for the $$$$, not to win.
December 8th, 2011 at 9:58 pm
All respect to Mr. Dungy but his time was up and I was not sad to see him go. The Bucs should have done much more in the post season under his reign. If Dungy could have only found a way to get an offense together that could put up an average of 17 points a game; the Bucs would have had a shot at a few Super Bowl berths.
I wont forget how maddening it was to see us lose many games with the defense only giving up 10-17 points and seeing Dungy on the sidelines with no emotion, arms crossed…
All you ever got from Dungy was, “We need to play better and execute better”! Same crap we hear now with Raheem’s “Fast, physical, smart, consistent” ramblings…
Gruden came in, put together just an average offense and we won a SB!!??? Then the following year after trouncing the Eagles in their new stadium, and getting up big on the Colts (the last time we’ve really seen the Bucs really establish dominance on the other team) the curse of Dungy struck and the Colts won the game (I almost had to be baker-acted)… We never saw that Super Bowl Bucs sqad again and it looks like we still will wont for some time…
To make a long story short: My take on the Bucs bringing Dungy back: No…
December 8th, 2011 at 10:02 pm
That settles it. Bring back Sam Wyche!
December 8th, 2011 at 10:12 pm
The thing about Dungy is this – HE has the X-factor when it comes to coaches and demanding better of the players.
If Dungy were the HC of the Bucs I can tell you this – Talib wouldn’t be on the team. Tanard Jackson wouldn’t be on the team. Kellen Winslow wouldn’t be pulling his crap on Freeman.
Most importantly the team wouldn’t be 4-8 AND the stadium would have a lot more fans!
December 8th, 2011 at 10:14 pm
Just to be clear – I’m NOT in favor of bringing Tony Dungy back. I was merely explaining the reason(s) why Tony could have to revitalize the Bucs franchise.
My personal choice would be to bring in Jeff Fischer. However Tony Dungy, Jon Gruden, Pee-wee Herman Edwards – any of the aforementioned is better than coach Rah!
IHCRC
December 8th, 2011 at 11:41 pm
Pre Dungy, we were losers. Then we were in the playoffs. Gruden got us the Superbowl… then spent the next few years wasting all our potential until the point we are now.
Dungy is clearly the modern king of Tampa coaching.
December 9th, 2011 at 12:48 am
PRE DUNGY WE WHERE LOOSERS no pre glazers we where loosers mr c didnt wana pay anyone lets set the record straight and without kiffin we dont know that the tampa two ever woulda been, so movin on bottom line dungy is not the answer here time to look forward not in the shadows
December 9th, 2011 at 12:55 am
The funniest posts I see on here are the ones that think Raheem should stay head coach and we should bring in new Offensive and Defensive coordinators to prop him up. Ok…. Raheem is the Head Coach people that means the product that we have seen these last three years have his stamp on it. I have never seen a Head Coach who gets such a pass on our offensive production. Yes Olson stinks but Raheem is the Head Coach!!! When offenses aren’t doing well that means the Head Coach is not doing his job to make corrections. Olson does not run this team Raheem Morris does. So not only can we blame the terrible disgusting wet paper bag defense on him but he has done NOTHING to make the offense better either. All the time when you say Olson should be using Blount Joe you really should be calling out Raheem because either he doesn’t have th guts or the intelligence to see what everyone else is seeing. We need a new head coach plain and simple. At this point I would take Jim Harbaughs little brother coaching this team if he has one it would have to be better than what we are seeing on Sundays. FIRE RAHEEM!!!!!!
December 9th, 2011 at 3:03 am
A little anti-Dungy, dontcha think? True, I always credited Rich McKay (paired with Jerry Angelo, Tim Ruskell, & yes, Mark Dominik) as being @ least half why the Bucs arose—but to honestly wonder why Dungy is deified around here is so beyond ludicrous as to be laughable. No other coach since John McKay—a period of almost 20 years—even sniffed the playoffs before Dungy. He’s a legend around here for a reason, & to even remotely question it makes me wonder why the hell you even write about the Bucs.
I agree Dungy might be more effective as a GM-type now, but the *biggest* reason I supported Raheem (up until about four games ago) is because he keeps our DUNGY-CREATED tradition…namely the Tampa 2/passionate defense. Which ironically enough, Raheem has gone away from, right to the bottom of the defensive charts.
If we hire a big name guy, there’s a good chance our identity is lost, defensive-wise…PLUS, almost every big name guy will want to be the GM too, which has never worked out save for Bill Walsh, Jimmie Johnson, & Bill Belichick.
But since Lovie Smith is probably keeping his job, I honestly don’t know who else would take this job who’d keep our hard-built tradition. So the “Dungy-as-coach” talk sparked my ears…*especially* since he learned from watching Gruden & coaching Peyton that offense matters too…
December 9th, 2011 at 9:20 am
according to joe we shouldnt hire anyone who has won a super bowl with another team.
or an experienced head coach who hasnt won a super bowl.
guess were screwed
December 9th, 2011 at 9:38 am
eric:
LOL Joe didn’t say that but, if your goal is to win a Super Bowl, history shows that’s a bad move.
Just not someone from the Marty Chokenheimer tree. 🙂
December 9th, 2011 at 9:40 am
Christopher:
Who knows what is working behind the scenes? Joe does believe Lovie has been treated a bit harshly by Bears fans. He’s done a nice job in the WIndy City.
December 9th, 2011 at 10:37 am
The Bucs are in deperate need of a complete transformation. Even though Tony Dungy is not the answer at Head Coach; he would be the perfect person to put in charge of football operations. If this team can’t get someone to be the face of the franchise and turn around the horrible perception that our fans and even fans across the league have; then the Glaziers will be facing total humiliation that goes all the way back to the Culverhouse era. There is nothing wrong with being behind the sence owners, but they must understand that without that person leading the charge on the field and in the community; the team and the franchise will again be the laughing stock of the entire league.
December 9th, 2011 at 11:56 am
I like Dungy, and he is a good calming influence, but great coach… hardly.
It was Kiffin’s defense and McKay’s players that defined the core group. Dungy was HC and could never find an OC or develop a QB.
He went to Indy witha team that had an offense in a division that they were going to win 10+ games every year no matter what he did.
His job was to make the defense better. Because of Freeney and Sanders, the defense got better, but it was never great and he never really acomplished the goal of creating a great defense.
Here in Tampa, he had a great defense and could never get over the hump with the offense.
The argument that Gruden won with Dungy’s players is a joke.
Gruden came in and changed 1/3 of the roster and made alot of drastic changes on offense… THAT is why they finally made it to the SB.
Dungy would not have done it.
Don’t get me wrong, the Bucs WON the SB because of the defense, but it was Kiffin’s.
Gruden won the SB because he got handed a defense.
See how this goes round and round? As far as coaches, I give Kiffin, then Gruden, then Dungy the credit… in that order.
On top of everything else, you can never go back (see Gibbs in D.C.).
Bring in a DC, give Raheem 1-2 years or get rid of him now, I don’t know which anymore, but for those screaming to get rid of him since the moment they hired him is just idiotic.
You have to give a man a chance and as an NFL coach, especially one taking over a team that is being gutted and starting from scratch, I think 4 years is really the minimum.
December 9th, 2011 at 12:08 pm
@joe,
As I understand it, the “CHokenheimer” coaching tree includes:
Cam Cameron
Bill Cowher
Tony Dungy
Herm Edwards
Marvin Lewis
Lovie Smith
Rod Marinelli
Mike Tomlin
I count III Super Bowl winners, and an NFC CHampion.
December 9th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
Eric:
You could argue Tomlin is more from the Kiffen/Chucky tree.
Took both Father Dungy and Cowher to ride the backs of Hall of Fame quarterbacks (yes, Big Ben someday will be in the Hall of Fame) at the end of their careers to win.
Not sure how many people know this, but half the town of Pittsburgh thought not much more of Cowher as many Bucs fans do about Raheem. Cowher was hardly a beloved coach in Pittsburgh. They thought he was a choke artist like his mentor Marty.
LOL (s)Cam Cameron. BUHAHAHA. Not sure what tree he fell out of. Actually, Cameron comes from the great championship-winning tree that was Bo Sh!tbechler.
Surely you are not politicking for Herm Edwards or Rod Marinelli to take over the Bucs?
December 9th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
@joe,
No I am not, but is there another coach with a stronger “tree”?
If there are, the list aint too long sir.
Riding the back of a Hall of fame QB is pretty common in Super Bowl lore. Bradshaw, Montana, Brady, Aikman, Staubach etc.
Walsh, Noll, Johnson, Landry, Bellichick suck too? They all had Hall of Famers at QB.