Tom Landry, Chuck Noll, Raheem Morris
November 18th, 2011
Joe has seen it literally daily on this very corner of the interwebs from the day Raheem Morris was announced as the Bucs coach on that January Saturday afternoon in 2009: for reasons not totally known, a segment of fans loathe Raheem Morris, hate Raheem Morris and will not rest soundly until the day Raheem Morris cleans out his desk at One Buc Palace.
Well, Joe’s got some ugly information for this sect of fans by way of Pat Yasinskas of ESPN: Morris has more wins in his first three seasons than some of the iconic coaches in NFL history who have their busts in Canton.
Morris is 17-24. That’s’ not great, but Morris already has more wins than some very big names had in their first three seasons as a head coach. Tom Landry had nine wins. Jeff Fisher had 16. Chuck Noll had 12 and Mike Shanahan had 16.
Morris and the Bucs still have seven games left to play. That means he’s in striking distance of the win totals put up by Bill Belichick (20), Bill Walsh (21), Marv Levy (19), Bill Parcells (22) and Dick Vermeil (18) in their first three seasons.
Imagine what the history of the Steelers or Cowboys would be if not for Noll and Landry, respectively?
Does this mean Morris will guide the Bucs to multiple Super Bowls? Odds are no, but that does mean Morris perhaps should be cut some slack.
November 18th, 2011 at 9:08 am
Lets see how Rah’s team finishes the year. If they continue to get blown out with no effort, that is the difference. That is what people are pissed about. Not being competitive.
November 18th, 2011 at 9:24 am
He needs to finish strong if he wants to keep respect. The way the team is playing(dropped balls, tackling,penalties etc) isn’t a comforting thought for a head coach. People understand that it is a tough schedule and aren’t upset/mad at losing to good teams. What bothers them is that every Sunday it seems like the Buc’s are playing against their opponents and against themselves as well.
November 18th, 2011 at 9:58 am
My only reason for feeling there should be a change is because I feel the teams D-Coordinator should be fired .. Which he is .. I would be more comfortable with him as head coach if we brought in a DC.
Even Rex Ryan has a D-Coordinator now
November 18th, 2011 at 10:03 am
its not Rah alone, its the way of the team right now, It feels like this team has a plan from decades ago. It feels like we a the 7 year build your Nfl Franchise Plan. When i was a kid no one would give a nfl coach even a thought of removing a coach after 5 years. The owners and front office would preach of the continuity is consistent winner.
But that was decades ago. Now is the day where coaches are defined in 3 years. Playoff teams are able to be built in a year or two. The plan now is have your team in the best position, and if division rivals have a injury your in the playoffs.
all the while the fans are expected to cough up middle of the road nfl ticket packages that are not cheap.
November 18th, 2011 at 10:04 am
Unfortunately for rah the microscope is much more focused in this era than it was for any of the coaches mentioned above when their careers began. With the advent of free agency (which we choose to ignore) and this thing called the Internet people have much higher expectations to win now. Are broncos fans pining over what could have been if josh mcdaniels only had more time? “What if” mike singletary was given a full decade to mold the niners? If the bucs continue to fall flat the rest of the way and post a 10+ loss season the buzzards will be circling big time and a slow start in 2012 will spell bye week doom for the rah-gime, Arab spring style.
November 18th, 2011 at 10:36 am
Some good post here. I’ve supported Raheem, because the team played hard for him. I think we have the right to expect that, for our hard earned money.
Sounds like most of the guys here are seeing things intelligently. There are a few that expect SuperBowls every year, and truely no nothing of the game. They are pretty much just whinny, self indulgent morons.
But most posters expect a young team to play hard, and show improvement. We did that last year. The last few games don’t seem to reflect growth. They seem to show regression, and lack of effort. That is a change, and a change for the worse.
I still strongly believe the lock out caused some of the regression. The lack of effort, On the other hand, is a bad sign. It means the players aren’t buying into what the coach is preaching. I believe Raheem brought this on himself- by playing favorites. Hayes, Black,and Talib do not put forth any real effort. Even when Raheem benches them, they know it’s no big deal. I think this has reached a boiling point with the team. A lot of guys take this very personal. They gate being ran on every Sunday. But when you have two OLbers who don’t even try to stop the run, its hotta dishearten the guys who are trying!
Raheem can still regain control of the team. Dominick should have gotten him some talent, to replace those slackers, but refused.
We’ll see. If they don’t start plaYing with some intensiu
November 18th, 2011 at 10:39 am
Damn it!!
. . Playing with some intensity, and showing some discipline, then a change may be in order!
November 18th, 2011 at 10:56 am
This doesn’t mean a damn team. Landry and Noll teams played with discipline and poise and the margin of victory in games was narrowing not widening.
If I am not mistaken you sheep, Landry took over an expansion franchise – rah inherited a 9-7 team with key players in place: K2, DJ, Trueblood, Penn, Barber, Talib, THC Jax, Caddy etc. That is apples and oranges.
Knoll took over a franchise that just joined a newly formed league and had been horrible for decades. He also did not inherit a 9-7 team with a solid foundation.
This argument that he was given a team with nothing in place is false and wasn’t accepted by the org in 2009. 0-7 changed their public stance. There are a number of members of the 2008 team starting now. The additions to that core have collectively made this team worse with the exception of Freeman.
November 18th, 2011 at 10:56 am
Landry, Noll etc thought beyond cliches.
November 18th, 2011 at 11:00 am
Great post article Joe with a lot of sane statistics that will show that even the great ones take time to get their ‘team’ and system together. Of course statistics like this only throw gasoline on the fire that is consuming the charcoal brains of people like Thomas 2.2 but hey…..at least he’s living in Tampa today so the people of Pittsburg didn’t have to read his posts about Lambert and Joe Greene being ‘busts’ their rookie year…..
November 18th, 2011 at 11:30 am
What was Amos Alonzo Staggs record? What the hell if were going back to the late 60’s early 70’s to pull Rah out of the fire.
Didn’t Paul Brown have a winning season with an expansion team?
Hilarious.
Ray and Tom Landry. Rah and Chuck Noll.
Breathtakingly delusional.
November 18th, 2011 at 11:43 am
To be fair–the coaches before 1978 only had 14 game seasons. I like Rah–
but some of the planning and game day decisions-yikes!
November 18th, 2011 at 11:56 am
Yah, but i don’t think their players quit trying in a game.
November 18th, 2011 at 11:59 am
Jim Caldwell has 24 wins in his first 3 years, he must be a football god.
November 18th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
As Rah sezs–“Stats are for losers”
November 18th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
i can handle losing, what i cant handle is them losing like this. false starts, defensive offsides, holding. those are all just lack of focus and effort penalties, but when the 5 year olds are baby sitting the 3 year olds these things are gonna happen.
November 18th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Noll:
He was the defensive coordinator of the Baltimore Colts (under head coach Don Shula) during their 13–1 season in 1968, in which the team set an NFL record of fewest points allowed (144). The 1968 Colts won the NFL championship by stomping the Cleveland Browns 34–0 in Cleveland, but the heavily favored Colts were shocked by the upstart AFL champion New York Jets, 16–7, in Super Bowl III at the Orange Bowl in Miami.
Landry
For the 1954 football season, Landry became the defensive coordinator for the Giants, opposite Vince Lombardi, who was the offensive coordinator. Landry led one of the best defensive teams in the league from 1956 to 1959. The two coaches created a fanatical loyalty within the unit they coached that drove the Giants to three appearances in the NFL championship game in four years. The Giants beat the Chicago Bears 47–7 in 1956, but lost to the Baltimore Colts in 1958 and 1959.
Anybody see some slight difference of these guys qualifications and Rah before they became head coach. See any “quality control” work? DC at Kansas State?
Please. These great coaches do not derserve to be mentioned in same breath as Raheem Morris.
November 18th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
I agree Joe. I also believe Raheem will be a better coach than Landry, Noll, and Fisher. The numbers prove it!
( that should send thomas and Eric to the liquor cabinet, and off line, for a while)
November 18th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
Considering some of those coaches had 14 game seasons, and their wins were against some tough teams while their losses were mostly NOT blowouts and you have a clearer comparison. Raheem is losing this team and the losses have gotten continuously worse. Numbers alone don’t explain things. The truth is in the details.
This team is totally undisciplined on both sides of the ball. Totally. They look unprepared. When they go down a couple scores they look lost. Their execution is inconsistent. They do a few things decently, but they do most things below average or even horribly. They do nothing above average, much less great. Especially in the area of coaching.
You can’t blame the offseason any longer. Miami had struggles, too, but around midseason they really started to execute and they look like a very tough team. But even in most of their losses they were very competitive and the margins were mostly small. The Bucs cannot say the same thing.
I thought the light would turn on around midseason for the Bucs because of the lack of an offseason. That hasn’t happened. Why? It has to come down to coaching. After watching the rest of the league I have to honestly say that the Bucs are probably the least prepared team on game day. They look extremely under-coached.
If they don’t have a Miami-line turnaround in competitiveness, discipline, margin of victory and margin of loss and continue to look like they are sinking in a sea of mediocrity and unpreparedness I honestly believe Raheem & Olson have to be replaced.
November 18th, 2011 at 2:34 pm
* meant to write “Miami-like” in that last paragraph
November 18th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
I’m sure Noll and Landry’s teams probably slowly got better not worse. Joe, you yourself pointed out this defense is now worse than when Jim bates was running it.
November 19th, 2011 at 3:30 am
Olsen has to go. For me, the jury is still out on Raheem