Stop The “Feast-Or-Famine Crap”
November 30th, 2011
There’s analysis of the Bucs defense, and then there’s the intelligent, passionate breakdowns offered by former Bucs defensive end Steve White (1996-2001).
Loyal readers of JoeBucsFan.com know that White regularly graced these pages with his written word in 2009 and 2010, treating Bucs fans with Xs and Os for the common man. Now, White brings his game to the local radio airwaves on a variety of shows, but it’s on Two-Hand Touch with Derek “Old School” Fournier, Tuesdays on WQYK-AM 1010, where he goes deep into the Bucs’ defense.
Here’s part of White’s take on what he says was an historically brutal performance by the defensive line in Tennessee:
“You got a situation where, literally, I can’t recall a situation where a defensive line was so uninterested in staying in their gap ever, not in a 4-3 defense,” White said. “Almost nobody cared that they were getting reached or zoned out of their gap, from top to bottom. The only guy I really could see that was fighting to stay in a gap was Roy Miller. And he actually made some pretty decent plays. Nobody probably noticed. But he was actually trying stay in his gap even though he was getting high-lowed and cutback side and stuff like that.
“… Even when we made plays, you know Haynesworth makes a tackle for a loss, when he’s reached. Tim Crowder makes a couple tackles for a loss, when he’s reached. You can’t do that in this style of defense because it’s a hit-or-miss, feast-or-famine type sitatuation. And what’s going to happen is, yeah, you might get them for a two-yard loss once, and then they’re going to hit you for a 10-yard gain three times — 10 yards or more. So you’re losing when you keep doing that feast-or-famine crap. Get in your gap and let’s play football. I’ve never seen anything like it.
“We knew it about Albert Haynesworth, obviously. But he’s taking it to a whole nother level now. Like I don’t know that he was in the B-gap at all on Sunday. I really don’t. And that’s where you’re supposed to be as the 3-technique most plays.
“Da’Quan Bowers, not in his gap. Even Adrian Clayborn, who I kind of got on early in the season about spinning out of the C-gap trying to make too many plays. He’s doing this kind of stuff and then now it’s like I don’t know what he’s doing when he’s got a tight end. He’s so big and strong and we know he’s a powerful guy with his bull rushes and stuff, but he’s getting knocked five yards off the ball by the tight end. Just bad technique, you know, getting knocked inside all the way to the B-gap from the C-gap. You can’t win football games that way. We were lucky. Basically, we had some really, really big plays bail us out to give us the opportunity to maybe win the game on the end of the game. But we should have been blown out by all rights.”
Only the Titans inexplicably getting away from the running game at times kept the Bucs in the game,” White said.
White also told a story of how he got called up from the Bucs’ practice squad in 1996 shortly after a backup Bucs defensive end was caught out of his gap several times in a blowout loss to Detroit. White said “Monte Kiffin lost his mind” after seeing the film and the DE was cut.
White said one might expect to see that kind of reponse from the Bucs this week.
“Somebody’s gotta go, man. You can’t have possibly that many defensive linemen, different guys, out of their gap and just seem like they’re cool with it and something not happen,” White said. “I can’t imagine. I can’t imagine sitting in that film room to be quite honest with you. And it’s Tuesday [night] and nobody got cut.”
Joe’s simply can’t figure out why the Bucs seem to be getting more undisciplined as the season progresses. An established coaching staff and system should have a young team going in the other direction.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:04 am
“Joe’s simply can’t figure out why the Bucs seem to be getting more undisciplined as the season progresses.”
This is a sign that the coaching staff has lost this team, it’s time for Raheem to go.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:28 am
Id like to know why this keeps happening also. In the off season there was so much talk about the new D Line Coaches. I’m not seeing much progress from last year. Now i know the coaches don’t play the games but they cannot continue to let this happen. I love Raheem as a coach but if he wants to keep his job he needs to start making some changes. We have to play better up front and be able to get our Defense off the field. We def need to upgrade the linebackers in the off season no matter if it is by draft or free agency we have to get some depth and some play makers along side Foster
November 30th, 2011 at 10:32 am
And By the way. This team has mediocre players overall. We do have some guys with alot of potential but our team lacks depth. You can call for Raheem to be fired all you want but not many other coaches would win with this team. We over achieved last year and now this year when we played a better division that has teams with better players we are being exposed. Simple as that. Gotta give raheem another chance with more talent
November 30th, 2011 at 10:42 am
I understand the feast or famine thing. But it seems as if the line is being coached to penetrate, which is not abnormal. Problem is, when your entire DB and LB corp is not tackling well, this penetration system does not work.
Couple the DL focusing on penetration with a horrible lack of tackling and you’ll give up 190 all the time. They either need to penetrate with an emphasis on tackling or use gap protection on the line. Until the tackling gets better this system, will fail.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:43 am
Joe: who has an established coaching staff?
We have a never-been-a-nfl-coordinator and 1 forgetful big 12 year defensive coordinator just a few years removed from being an assistant D Backs coach as our HEAD coach.
He had no NFL experience coaching beyond D Back technique. He has NO clue how to diagnose and correct non-d back or offensive problems.
Many who have observed them prepare (including me) like Rich Gannon have commented on how badly and undisciplined they practice. This was shocking to me having attended Dungy, Gru and other team’s practices.
This team is run unlike any NFL team that I am aware of. Using cliches as motivational tools isnt head coaching, its not and Rah doesnt get it.
This gap integrity problem, or failure to play with discipline in favor of freelancing is what teams coached by friends or soft/weak leaders look like.
This team cannot be successful under rah, they cant, even with a real talent in free at the helm.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:45 am
Del rio had some pretty good 4-3 defenses in Jagsville, maybe he can help out Morris with this mess. Either get busy and hire somebody, or stay busy on the road to getting fired. Same ole shiza. Can you see the forest Raheem, it is right behind the trees over.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:49 am
Doesnt this come down to having the right player type for the system your implementing? In a 4-3 system you need 4-3 type players.
Remember a few years back when Merenely(?) coached the Lions D and he was using a Tampa2 D but his players were not suited to that style, they sucked. But then he goes to Chicago where Luvy uses the Tampa2 defense and they are tearing up the place.
I think we are using a defense style not suited to the players. Anyway thats my .02.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:50 am
One more thing. This is ALL coaching. If you cant get your players to do what you need them too, you have training issues.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:52 am
Stimpy
McCoy, Clayborne, Bowers, Bennet, Haynesworth, Miller… ALL are perfectly suited for a 4-3 1 gap style defense.
It is all about discipline and trusting the guy next to you. They are getting worse because their is no trust and each player feels they have to make something happen.
They are not playing as a team.
November 30th, 2011 at 10:55 am
I mean, Jackson leads all safeties with 14 missed tackles and has made only 17!!!!!. Jones isn’t far behind with 10.
Ronde has missed more tackles than anyone in the league with 15 while Biggers and Talib both have 8.
Black has missed more than any other outside linebacker with 12. Next worse is Foster with 7.
Gap, schmap. We simply can not tackle.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:00 am
Raheem is not just the coach of the players he is also the HEAD coach. He may be all buddy buddy with the players but how is he handling the coaches? He needs to be coaching them also. He wants to run the ball yet we pass most of the time. Sounds like his message is not getting to the Offensive Coordinator. Defense is just plain terrible. Perhaps the defensive coaches just don’t care enough. Maybe Raheem is micromanaging too much or not enough. But there is a serious disconnect in this team somewhere and with players getting worse it has to be coaching.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:00 am
@stimpy
We have the proper players for our 4-3 man/press scheme, it’s that they are not executing for one reason or another, either they suck and don’t have any business being in the NFL (our two OLBs Laural and Hardy, as I am now referring to them), or they are coming back from undisclosed injuries (I am assuming Talib’s hip flexor was much worse than any knew) or they aren’t being coached up properly. We have a mix of issues, but top among them is our head coach, he’s completely lost, he’s starting to make Jim Caldwell look like an option.
Here’s the facts:
We have to be at 80% of the salary floor this season, we are going to spend on our players, but thats still not gonna eat up enough cap, so we will be players in FA, lets hope Dom and whoever they hire as HC make some wise FA choices.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:01 am
That’s some great insight as to what’s really going on. Even some former players would have a hard time spotting this unless they were familar with D line play. Most of these problems should have been fixed by week 4 even with the summer lockout. Goes way back to what most fans and experts have been preaching; complete lack of urgency & effort. Excluding Ronde Barber; this team has that lackadaisical attitude. I’m not sure if anyone on this coaching staff can fix this problem.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:01 am
“We have to be at 80% of the salary floor this season”
meant “next” season.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:07 am
Why can’t Steve White get hired to run our D-line?? He has been covering, scrutinizing, evaluating, critiquing, and plane saying it like it see’s it TOO A TEE for quite a while. How can we make this happen?? We need “qualified” people to mentor and kick the ass of these guys (young or old!) Going backwards in development has got to be the most frustrating, not the losses.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:15 am
People thought the 49ers didn’t have talent and look at what a good coaching staff did there…Joe Berry should be fired yesterday and……ah forget it. Steve White is awesome at breaking these games down. Its “must listen radio” every tuesday night. xoxo
November 30th, 2011 at 11:37 am
below me:
LOL Joe Barry hasn’t coached the Bucs linebackers in two years.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:41 am
@below me
Perfect analogy, SF with the very same talent as last season (except for NaVarro Bowman & Braylon Edwards) sucked under Mike “I’m a Motivator” Singletary, they bring in an EXPERIENCED (as in Harbaugh actually coached a winning program, something Raheem has never done at any level) coaching staff and look what happens. Raheem & his staff of friendly coaches must go. I thought in the beginning that having a young HC who could relate to today’s players would be a plus, it wasn’t, they exhibit absolutely no respect for him or his staff and this is reflected in their play, but you cannot fire the whole team, so the HC has to take responsibility for his team’s lack of effort and execution.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:47 am
Flmike:
Bravo! I couldnt have said it better!
November 30th, 2011 at 11:54 am
@Thomas 2.2
I really do believe this was a plan, hire someone on the cheap until they are done paying Chucky his extortion money. If the cheap guy works out they all look like geniuses, if not, you’ve stock piled talent enough to entice an experienced HC to coming here. There is going to be a plethora of experienced HCs available come Jan/Feb, I can see Reid being let go, Del Rio has already been jettisoned by the new owners in Jax, Norv Turner is a goner as well, plus the ones already available like my fav Jeff Fisher. With our young talent we will attract a good HC.
November 30th, 2011 at 11:54 am
Not to mention the $57 mil in cap money.
November 30th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
flmike:
Please no NORV! but very intrigued with the thoughts on the HC candidates. Totally forgot about Fisher. Like that one. Del Rio “going soft” after big contract is disturbing. You think Bellicheck (?) would want back on the feild. Once again, a guy who can see our flaws and suggest how to fix re: Steve White. Just give us a guy who can Motivate (teach) and Discipline – on both sides of the ball! I’ll even take someone in place of Olsen for starters. He doesn’t know what he’s doing at all!
November 30th, 2011 at 12:07 pm
Hear hear, Joe…2 years ago Geno Hayes was a rising star under Joe Barry, now….
flmike…well said.
November 30th, 2011 at 12:14 pm
@bucs4755
Was just throwin gold Norv out ther as a name, but he is an amazing OC, every where he goes as OC those teams put up points.
I think you mean Brian Billick, he was the architect of that record breaking Viking’s offense of ’98, that is a very intriguing name, wonder if he’s interested in coaching, seems to like media.
Being that this team is so very young they need a disciplinarian type HC who is going to instill in them what it means to be a PROFESSIONAL on and off the field as well as make them winners.
Here’s a name that no one is talking about Mike Martz.
November 30th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
The questions seem to be:
Are they undisciplined or do they just suck? Or , do they suck because they are undisciplined?
I say suck is suck, no matter the underlying cause.
Jimmy Lake is the only man qualified to fix this.
November 30th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
damn I be dumb…Joe BAKER should’ve been fired and I’m double dumb for not getting Joe’s sarcasm. you’re always one step ahead of me! NEWMAN!
November 30th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
flmike
yep Billick (my bad) Martz scary as head coach, but OC maybe. Was always marked as pass happy and I don’t feel we have the personel (not to say we could go out and get with the cap we have). I like the run settin up the pass and Blount could be a beast if used correctly (re Olsen pulling at end of game when he’s steam rolling-head scratcher!). I guess the consensus is out with the staff and in with something new on these posts (xcept a few). I agree, but who will make that decision? If Glazers I’m scared. Dominic…don’t know. Who?
November 30th, 2011 at 12:39 pm
@Eric
They suck because they are undisciplined, and they are undisciplined because the coaching staff is as well. A fish stinks from the head back. Raheem has been given the talent to work with, he just hasn’t the gravitas to do it.
November 30th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
@bucs4755
I assume thats an ownership/GM decision, but ultimately the Glazer’s have to make that determination.
Martz is scary but we actually have 4 very young & very good WRs and could run his Offense.
The more I think about it though, Billick is very intriguing.
November 30th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
@flmike
Good point! Complete turn around from last year.
November 30th, 2011 at 1:00 pm
If cap space includes a coach then I say bite the bullet and throw some money at a LEADER! A few veterans (not a mish mash Gruden) to guide the youngries and Brooks, Sapp, Lynch in as motivators every once and a while to remind what it’s like to play a sport for a living with respect and hustle and the tides will turn. Lets just hope the trickle down effect is handled correctly or we will be posting like this for some time to come. Hey Glazers…Are you reading JoeBucsFan??? I suggest you take a gander! Great talking and Go Bucs!!
November 30th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
this is a gap integrity defense and we have none. enough said.
November 30th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
If Billick is your cup of tea, the Glazers will have to tweak their strategy, because Billick is making it clear, he doesn’t fit. The article interestingly uses the word “youngry”, which I think is a direct reference to the Bucs. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/30/billick-says-hes-too-old-expensive-for-jags-job/
November 30th, 2011 at 2:16 pm
This is the way Raheem coaches he wants up field disrupution,GMC said this last year.Raheem is in Way over his head.He doesnt know how to run a team,Everyone is bashing Olsen, his hands have been tied with Raheems B.S.We need a REAL head coach.Dont get me wrong Rah might be a great guy with Potential but we need discipline and proven success.Potential is killing this team.We cant afford to waste any more time lets move on now.Push for Fisher if Reid gets fired jump on him try and steal Capers from GB.
November 30th, 2011 at 2:40 pm
Even Raheem could win with Norv Turner as OC and Jack Del Rio as DC. Keep Rah as figurehead and official time-out caller and we’re good to go. Just don’t let him interfere on either side of the ball (except maybe the secondary). Voila! Problem solved.
Of course, we could also get the same results by firing Rah and hiring a talented head coach. Either way I’m okay with it.
November 30th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
It’s hard to say what the reasoning for hiring Morris was but it’s a copy cat league and remember Josh McDaniels was hired at the time and the Bucs was probably gambling looking for the next Mike Tomlin. I don’t question if Raheem can X and O with the best but as this team has looked unprepared for three seasons now overall, something has to change. I mean it’s becoming dire because of the financial implications. With one of the league’s lowest attendance and unpopular teams the Bucs could be cornered into bigger issues.
I don’t believe Norv is the answer but I do think that the Saints OC Pete Carmichael in New Orleans would truly offer this team a new way of winning. He is the coach calling plays while HC Sean Payton is more of a facilitating HC now. He and Payton both drafted this offense from the ground up and needless to say it’s dominant. I would love to bring that winning formula to Tampa. I can elaborate more on him if anyone cares to know. Also he came to New Orleans with Drew Brees.
November 30th, 2011 at 4:58 pm
“Even Raheem could win with Norv Turner as OC and Jack Del Rio as DC. Keep Rah as figurehead and official time-out caller and we’re good to go. Just don’t let him interfere on either side of the ball (except maybe the secondary). Voila! Problem solved.”
Two coaches will fix all the problems the team has. Wow. How simple minded are some people. Two coaches will fix the 90+ missed tackles we’ve had, make our terrible players into good ones. I just can’t believe some of the comments here.
November 30th, 2011 at 5:07 pm
K2:
Not quite.
As Joe has pointed out several times, why exactly would both of these guys uproot their families for one year?
(Hint: Raheem’s contract runs through 2012.)
Only way you get those guys for one year is to pay them Chucky money.
November 30th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
@ Joe, I was quoting a comment from above and making fun of it. Read the rest of my comment.