“It Was A Sham Competition.”
August 9th, 2011
Listening earlier today to the too-Jewish sounding “King David Show,” heard locally on WQYK-AM 1010, Joe had some knowledge dropped on him by the original Pewter fellow, Scott Reynolds.
The kingpin of the web-only Pewter Report had some very interesting observations and background for listeners. In discussing how he believes the Bucs sometimes fall in love with their draft picks a bit much and “force feed” them into the starting lineup before they are ready or perhaps before they are qualified, Reynolds brought up Sabby the Goat.
Drafted in the second round, it didn’t take long for Bucs fans to figure out that Sabby the Goat shouldn’t have been drafted at all. Starting 15 games in 2009, Sabby the Goat led the league in missed tackles.
Last Bucs rock star general manager Mark Dominik brought in Sean Jones to perhaps push Sabby the Goat to make him better and to compete for the starting job, in theory, Reynolds scoffed at this saying, “It was a sham competition. The coaches knew all along” that Jones would be the starter.
Now remember that last year when Jones was named the starter, Sabby the Goat — what do goats do? They don’t bark; they don’t growl; they don’t bray. — lashed out at Raheem Morris, claimed he was set up by the Bucs second-year coach and that the competition was not fair. Reynolds did not infer this at all, rather, Reynolds suggested that Jones was clearly the better player and that had Sabby the Goat started, it would have been an injustice.
This subject came up because Reynolds — much like Joe — is apprehensive about rookie Mason Foster, who has been a pro for all of about two weeks, currently listed atop the depth chart ahead of Tyrone McKenzie, like Foster, a former third round pick.
(To be honest, this scares the hell out of Joe.)
Reynolds, though he believes Foster will turn out to be a fine NFL middle linebacker, hopes Foster is not handed the starting job because of what he may be, but because he won the starting job in battle with McKenzie.
Joe agrees. It’s only fair and rightful.
August 9th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Since they already know very well exactly what they have in McKenzie, it may be that after a couple weeks of camp they think it’s clear that Foster is the better player. Not more experienced, just better. Just a guess.
Raheem said openly that Foster is going to make some full-speed mistakes and that he’s okay with that. Experience only comes with playing time and you don’t get playing time sitting on the bench. With McKenzie only having played in a few games it won’t take long at all for Foster to equal his experience.
August 9th, 2011 at 2:24 pm
I thought it was strange too … The hidden plot may be to get Foster to MLB as he is similar in ways to McKenzie and get Tmack to start to work in at WLB.
As of right now Geno Hayes has no competition for a starting spot ???
August 9th, 2011 at 2:42 pm
Or maybe a better analogy is Barrett Ruud who we drafted and never was any good to begin with. Us “losing him” to free agency was the sham, we realized how poor a run stopper he was so we made no effert to sign him at all. Even with millions under the cap it was obvious he was not the answer at MLB. I feel much more confident with a rookie who never played a snap in the NFL. That shows the total disregard I (and Mark Dominick) have for Mr. Ruud.
August 9th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
After reading Nick2’s statement, I have no words and all I can do is shake my head.
August 9th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
If your premise is based on them forcing higher draft picks into playing time, why was Myron Lewis not forced onto the field over Biggers? It is a flawed theory.
I love TMac and would be VERY happy if he were to win the starting spot, but I dont buy the whole ruckus you are making over this.
August 9th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
First, I love Ronde and he is one of my all-time favorite bucs.
Remember, the first priority of this regime is to confirm their legitimacy. Example: “we are going with a young team and grooming our youth” but still retaining Ronde Barber. How does that groom Biggers and Lewis? Inconsistent? Yes.
Instead of accepting responsibility for a draft mistake, they Keep Kyle Moore on the roster (and don’t resign Styles for insurance) because they refuse to acknowledge the mistake. Saying that players will earn their positions, yet forcing McCoy into the role as a leader when he has been a huge disappointment. If I was Clayborn, I would tell him to shut up because McCoy has only played in 12 more games and only has 2 more sacks than he does never having played one.
Then, “we are not participating in the evil free agency” yet you sign a mediocre punter to a free agent deal. HUh? Punters are a dime a dozen, particularly ones like Koenen who falls squarely in the middle of the league re averages while kicking in a dome.
Use that money for a pass rusher. Atlanta signs Ray Edwards to counter John Abraham and we sign who? I guess that they are planning on punting a lot this year and they KNOW that their defense is unable to defend a short field.
August 9th, 2011 at 3:26 pm
How many veteran players do we need Thomas,we kept Ruud Barber and williams for that last year,one more year under Barber for Talib.Free agency is all you can talk about answer me this ,when the patriots won their rings it was with players they drafted,less talented than the later team they bought with free agency but more team oriented,why is that?
August 9th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
After reading thomas 2.2’s post above I can only shake my head…I feel I have lost IQ points just by reading it. I do not believe anyone can argue that these guys do not own up to mistakes.
August 9th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
McBuc, my sentiments exactly.
Line by line, I went from headache, to migraine, to nausea, delirium, puke, convulsions, then complete meltdown vegetative state. I’m back now with a piece of blue tape on my screen that I can place and remove whenever his nonsense appears. Who is he trying to convince? Himself? Groundhog day again and again, over and over and over.
August 9th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
BigMac, he is like kriptonight (or hoever you spell that), drains the sense right out of people. Do you think he will change his tune on GMC if he puts up 10 sacks? I think Sapp only had 4 sacks or so his rookie year as well. He would have been rippen John McKay for starting all those young Bucs and rookies on their way to an NFC Championship as well.
August 9th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
McBuc,
No I don’t, he’ll just find another reason to bash GMC or Raheem. He’ll say GMC went up against injured linemen or inferior backups. He may just move on to another player. He is all about attention and being right. He relishes the thought of the Bucs going win less just so he can say he told us so. That isn’t a fan. That is a sick twisted child with a warped mentality. Reading his posts is like skydiving on acid without a parachute. It’s a crazy ride that ends all too quick with a big crash.
August 9th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
Mcbuc: we are not an expansion team. Did the patriots draft rodney harrison, corey dillon, randy moss, wes welker i bet i could name othere if given the time. The Pats are a franchise BECAUSE they participate in free agency or trade for vets. Just like the packers with woodson and pickett on D, and the Saints with Brees and Vilma among others. We are the only fools patient enough for the 5 year inexpensive plan.
August 9th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
You are right Thomas, I give up. All the problems are that the people at 1 Buc place know less about football than you do. That is why everything you said about last year came true right? How did all your doom and gloom posts turn out at the end of the season…I know, I know…third place in the devision, yada yada yada. You my friend are a broken record. Well, at least you are not a Troll like that Gringo guy, writing “Go Eagles” on each of his posts. I get you do not like the direction of the team, and I have stood up for you when people want you banned, I just wish you would come up with some new material. I know that this is mostly due to the lockout andlack of info this year, but comeone man, get excited for football! GO BUCS!
August 9th, 2011 at 4:31 pm
Give Thomas credit. He used all two of his brain cells coming up with that garbage. Seriously, you can tell he tried really hard. Reached a little.
August 9th, 2011 at 4:36 pm
@nick @McBuc I can smell the smoke generated by T2.2s two brain cells furiously rubbing together all the way over here in West Palm.
August 9th, 2011 at 4:49 pm
A “fan” that continues to attack & complain even with a team that went 10-6 and which has one of the brightest futures of any young team in the NFL is a “fan” that will never be satisfied. Simple as that.
August 9th, 2011 at 4:52 pm
Yeah, this regime has certainly never admits their mistakes, right? How can you type that and attempt to maintain credibility? If there is one thing everyone should agree on, it’s that they are not afraid to admit mistakes and react quickly. And what exactly makes you think Kyle Moore is going to make the roster anyway? He is under contract, of course he’s going to be in training camp. Let the smoke settle before you make conclusions. It’s been well documented (and even admitted by him) that Stylez doesn’t practice hard. Obviously, due to his age, he has already peaked as a player also. Is that someone you want on our team? If he’s so great, why hasn’t he signed. Ronde is still on the team because he amazingly hasn’t had father time do his work. #55 is my unquestioned favorite Buc of all time (although Freeman will probably pass him in about 2 years if he keeps this up), but he wasn’t half the player he used to be. I guarantee you he would tell you the exact same thing, now that some time has passed.
And how exactly did they force McCoy into a leadership role? Hey dumbarse, they have been in a lockout for 6 months! He did it on his own. No matter what, you are going to hate on GMC, so it is all irrelevant. I can’t wait for McCoy to tear it up this year. I am going to shove it in your face every single game. But we all know you will shrivel up like the little boy you are.
Why invest heavily in a DE when we just drafted 2 with our first 2 picks? That makes no sense. If you are confident in the players you draft (not you, but Dominik. You are not even confident you can keep from wetting yourself while watching your favorite player Suh.), why add a third wheel? Let the rookies grow on the field, it will only make them better. But like McBuc said, you know better than the powers that be at One Buc. When we go 0-16, you should drop off your resume, so maybe we can start getting multiple Super Bowls. I can see it now, Bucs trade their #1 and #2 picks to get Julius Peppers. It works on Madden, so it must work in real life, right?
August 9th, 2011 at 5:01 pm
Thomas when the Pats retooled they won a lot of games but not a suprbowl his drafted teams played better together,why didnt they win with the greatest coach and that allstar roster?
August 9th, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Hawaiian, 1 question: since rah rah took over, how many assistant coaches have been shown the door? (which of course publicly makes it appear that someone other than the head coach is responsible). Bates, jags, mangurian, richy b, wash and on and on. . .
They want the credit for the successes but can the assistants after failures. If only there were not confidentiality clauses in contracts.
Richy b was smart saying: I have been fortunate to work with great coaches like gruden, turner etc. Who was missing? Our mumbling leader. What do you think Richy thinks about him as HC?
August 9th, 2011 at 5:17 pm
Hawaiian: they put gmc’s fat a– on the side of the stadium before he ever played a down. That is forcing a player into a role that you don’t know if his play will live up to. Draft position doesn’t make you a leader, productivity on the field does. Last year gmc stunk, and now he and rah are trying to blame was for the coaching. Who is wash’s boss? Can’t he tell wash to utilize gmc differently? Apparently not to the sheep.
August 9th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Sham Competition?
Is there any other kind?
Nice post Joe(s); “Too Jewish” “Web-Only” and the goat!
Excellent combo! Midseason form my friend.
August 9th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
Putting his face on the side of the stadium does not force him to be a leader. That is trying to get the fan base excited about the new players. I can’t believe I even acknowledge your idiotic comments. He didn’t stink, he played like a rookie DT. I know you get hot and steamy at the thought of Suh, but had an amazingly rare rookie season. That is not the norm, not even for the greats. Look at all the best DT’s in the game today, how many had great rookie seasons? Stop hating on GMC, because it is completely ridiculous. I guarantee you that if you saw him man to man, you wouldn’t say any of the things you type here. As for blaming it on the coaches, that’s not true. As only you can do, you are putting words into people’s mouth. Besides, if you got your head out of your arse for a minute, you would know that they did start utilizing him different as the year went on. With the exception of you, everyone knows he started playing much better as a result. But again, I guess we are all wrong, and you, the great football expert who knows all, is correct. I just can’t wait to see how you change your story when he tears it up.
August 9th, 2011 at 5:33 pm
M.wesley:
Antowain smith, David patten, Marc Edwards, mike vrabel, Roman pheifer, otis smith are just some of the free agents on the pats first of three super bowl teams. They added free agents over 3 years for their final super bowl team. examples, Corey dillon, Rodney Harrison, Roosevelt Colvin played on a later super bowl team.
The Patriots thrive in free agency and in trades for vets.
August 9th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
The road to Damascus is filled with Shami goats…………….
August 9th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Welcome to the NFL. Coaches don’t start guys claimed off waivers from someone else’s practice squad ahead of their own 3rd round draft picks. Mckenzie has about as much experience playing with a 1st team NFL defense as Foster. Mckenzie spent his entire first year on IR and most of last year on a practice squad. Its not like Mckenzie will really know what the hell he is doing at first either so why in the world would the coaches play him ahead of a guy who they drafted themselves? I guarantee you one thing- Bill Belichek wouldn’t have demoted a 3rd round pick to being on the practice squad and then waived the guy at his request, if the thought he had anything really special on his hands. Belichek isn’t Jeff Fisher.
August 9th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
I’m not here to defend Sabby but there is one thing I always find funny when people throw out that “lead the league in missed tackles” stat: you know who was second on that list? Ronde Barber.
August 9th, 2011 at 6:06 pm
How many more drafts do we have to wait untill we get to the playoffs???
August 9th, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Ruuuud!!! Will be missed
August 9th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
The road to Damascus is filled with tanks and troops.
I just listened to The Dom and Ronde on The Big Dog’s show. Dom said it for 999’th time. They want players molded the Buc way. They don’t want bad habits and they prefer to groom young players with the right stuff to begin with. Yes it takes time and patience but is how they like to do it and Dom said that has been the philosophy for many moons. They will pick a FA if he fits their type of player, and many just don’t meet their standards, be it high or low, they want a certain type of individual. Since Dom has taken over he has proven that with all the captains drafted and a very high emphasis on footwork and balance, not just strength and speed. If there are Hater/Fans out there that want to be upset, more power to them. I’m happy and excited and I think you have to be a complete moron not to be. The Big Dog says the same thing as many of us do. He is pumped up and more excited about the direction of the Bucs in years. I’m not jumping off 1 Buc place into the Hater’s pity pool though. It really is a sign of stupidity or insecurity. I’m real sorry you 2 guys have a little dick. Maybe you can find a little women that doesn’t mind a 3 second tickle job. It is what it is.
August 9th, 2011 at 6:30 pm
the road to damascus is … WHAT!?
first understand your biblical references. ‘the usual saying that the road to hell is filled with good intentions, maybe your trying to say the opposite that the road to heaven or… something is filled with some collateral damage? demascus biblically, literarily and theologically speaking is not an epitomized place that represents anything
(unless you are implying we are on our way to commit a great transgression, and therefore implying that sabby was the moment along the road to Damascus that changed our path for the right).
That is the only correct usuage reference I have come accross using the road to Damascus to allude to something in life. (unless you were just referencing the high goat population around the throughways in Damascus (assumably comparatively vs the US))
second. guys. stop being trollbait for Thomas and friends its too easy, and quite amusing.
August 9th, 2011 at 6:31 pm
@bigmac! hahahah yes! yes it is
August 9th, 2011 at 6:57 pm
I’ve been reading this site for a long, long time without posting a comment and finally I’ve gotten fed up with Thomas 2.2’s ridiculous rants against a coach that should have won the Coach of the year award last year, and a defensive tackle that actually played well considering the circumstances he was under.
First of all, Thomas. You’re very wrong to judge Mccoy just because of his sack total. That makes you sound like an 11 year old kid that sits around playing Madden all day. Defensive tackles can have very successful careers without totaling up big sack counts. Mccoy can be a good player getting 5 or 6 sacks but still being a disruptive force in the middle.
I noticed also you like to compare Mccoy to Suh, which is also just flat out ignorant, for reasons that should be obvious. Mccoy played with an awful D-line around him and was double teamed constantly. Go back and watch the tape, you’ll see from the very beginning of the Browns game basically, Mccoy was drawing double teams. Even in pre season they double teamed him! Suh played with another very good tackle next to him, along with 2 good ends. You cannot compare the 2 players, just like you can’t compare Mccoy to Sapp.
You also say he was “forced” into a leadership role. Oh, really? So putting up a picture of a player on the stadium makes him a leader? I see Blount up there but don’t see him as a leader on the offense. Did the owners “force” Mccoy to mentor Clayborn at Freemans camp during the lockout? No, Mccoy took the leadership role on himself.
I have a few other points to make about your broken ideas on the Bucs, but I’ll save them for another time.
August 9th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
awesome piece just done on E:60 about Josh freeman
August 9th, 2011 at 7:48 pm
I think it is quite amazing that it only took Thomas 4 minutes to morph back into Eric. That is talent there.
August 9th, 2011 at 8:00 pm
hey thomas the pats never won a super bowl with moss or welker im pretty sure they lost to the giants that year
August 9th, 2011 at 8:08 pm
why don’t we use the steelers as an example…..
August 9th, 2011 at 8:19 pm
@Bob,
I just saw it too. I just wish it were longer!
August 9th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
Realist it took from 2002 to 2008 to destroy it give them half the time to repair it.
August 9th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
It started way before 2002, every one forgets all the picks traded away For Gruden and other players, and the bad drafts by Rich McKAY. Thank goodness Gruden and Allen started to build our O-line!
August 9th, 2011 at 9:19 pm
No Biblical reference. There really are Shami goats in Damascus.
Didn’t really work……………..was a take on the “sham” part of Joe’s post.
Back to football, never mind…………..
August 9th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
thank god for the o-line, great job in six years.Bad drafts by Mckay,ok.if only they would have given Chucky a chance.
August 9th, 2011 at 9:22 pm
Winning a starting job against someone that wasn’t even on the roster until near the end of last season isn’t a big deal. His competition wasn’t really tough, so as far as I’m concerned he was handed the job.
August 9th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
I would expect to see T-Mack starting MLB for the NE game. How else do you evaluate the best player for the job but to pit them both against the 1’s. The Sabby example is just poor. Like the old QB competition with Mush Mouth. I like SR’s insight, I just think everybody’s reacting too fast to a 1st draft depth chart. Besides, Joe has a good point, Black is probably wearing the green dot anyway. Somebody ask Prime if those colors clash.
August 10th, 2011 at 12:46 am
haha my bad on the over sensitive to biblical reference thing
haha my bad
August 10th, 2011 at 1:51 am
I would personally like to see TMAck and Foster on the field at the same time. In either position, Tho from their Collage careers, i think Foster would be better suited for the Will then MLB, and TMack is more fitted for the MLB then the outside. BUT the big difference here. TMack is more athletic and faster then Foster. So i can understand why the have foster in the middle to use his strength and tackleing prowess to take on the runners. While Tmack plays more coverage with run support on the outside. Dream setup (especially now they will play the Sam like a Sam and not a will anymore) Weakside-1st TMack, 2nd Geno Hayes. MLB-1st Foster 2nd A. Hayward SLB- Quincy Black 2nd Dekota Watson… I love Geno as a player and a Blitzer but i don’t think he is “Spalsh” enough to be the starter and redirect the traffic into the play makers. He’s small and people will just run right at him. TMAck on the other hand, players will be more hesitant to run right for him.
August 10th, 2011 at 1:57 am
and i don’t think they are waiting 5 years to finally dip in the FA.. this is the first year we DID NOT actually dip in FA that much. It was what 09 we went and picked up D. Ward, K2, and Jeff Faine if i remember correctly. Last year we went and got the LG Kendrick? the WR R. Brown. and Sean Jones. This year however i think they are just waiting.. Why throw money around when u don’t truly know what u need to pick up. I say give em this year to figure ou where the true holes are and they will be filling them next year with F/A.
August 10th, 2011 at 5:27 am
They are building the defense from the line out right now thru the draft. DT, then DE, then LB, next will be DBs in next years draft.
Eric, I got what you were going for, and had a chuckle.
August 10th, 2011 at 7:41 am
This was a quote in a TBO article today. “…McCoy said. “I think our two new guys (rookie defensive ends Adrian Clayborn and Da’Quan Bowers) are guys that can pick it up right away. I’ve never been able to do that. It takes me time to pick things up…” While I cannot believe he admits it, I applaud him for saying so! McCoy is Dominick’s first big bust. however, the mistake was made by not trading up with SL to get Suh, whom demolished O-lines in his first year. Dominick stated that McCoy was the best player in the draft. So much for Superman!
And the biggest “Sham competition” was the McCown/Leftwich competition that was definitely rigged for Leftwich. McCown clearly won with the 3rd string, while Leftwich lost the competition with the 1st string, yet was named the starter! That competition out-stunk the Sabby/Jones debacle by far.
August 10th, 2011 at 7:56 am
Excellent points Tampa2: so there you have it Mikebucsfan, mccoy’s own words prove how clueless you are. He said he didn’t pick things up, you wrongly blame it on double teams. Last year, I believe that Steve white did an analysis re double teams and said gmc was not being doubled more than the other o lineman. White concluded that poor technique and rah moving him around too much accounted for his struggles, and now gmc says he wasn’t picking things up. I didn’t say anything about sack total alone, his tack and tfl numbers were terrible. Also, he disappeared in the second falcon game with no official stats.
The mc own leftwich fraud was the best example of these sham competitions that rah is becoming famous for.
August 10th, 2011 at 8:11 am
Trading up for Suh would have meant the loss of Price,Benn & William’s picks. Did you not see what Atlanta spent for Jones. Guess not. Another great post by one of the Thomafiles.
August 10th, 2011 at 8:39 am
Guys you got Thomass-ed, AGAIN!
He is like an Uwe Boll movie; repetitve, really bad, and time you can never get back!
August 10th, 2011 at 10:20 am
Only a supreme dumbass thinks a defensive lineman can be judge after one year. Tamba Hali was considered a “bust” at first. Now he is the best pure pass rusher in the NFL.
August 10th, 2011 at 8:46 pm
FYI, Josh Freeman is Superman. McCoy may be Batman, but no question who the man of steel is.
August 10th, 2011 at 11:30 pm
Thomas, Eric, and Tampa2 were all saying the same things about Freeman during/after his rookie year so pay no attention to them.