Gruber Not Ring-Worthy
July 18th, 2011
Joe reads the comments and hears the sports radio chatter. Inevitably, when talk of the Bucs Ring of Honor comes up, left tackle Paul Gruber’s name shows up on a lot of fans’ short lists.
But former Bucs guard Ian Beckles, Gruber’s teammate in the 1990s, says Gruber is not Ring-worthy and the conversation about him should start and stop with Pro Bowl honors, so Beckles said today on the Ron and Ian Show on WDAE-AM 620.
“Whose Ring of Honor has guys in it who never made a Pro Bowl?” Beckles asked, after referring to Gruber never grabbing that honor in his 12 seasons.
Beckles went on to say the Ring should not be a nice guy competition and, if Gruber gets in, Beckles said, then Tony Mayberry has to be a lock to join him. Mayberry (1990-1999) was a Pro Bowl center in his final three seasons.
Joe’s not sold on Gruber or Mayberry, both excellent players and career Buccaneers. Plus, after the Bucs induct all the guys definitely worthy, if they continue to go one inductee per year, there should be a whole new generation of Bucs in the debate for a spot. Of course, that assumes the Raheem Morris era doesn’t crash and burn.
July 18th, 2011 at 4:27 pm
What a dominant left tackle! I was at his last game when he broke his leg. I’d take him over Penn any day.
July 18th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
When did anyone ever care what the hell Ian Beckles has to say about anything? He is a notorious self seeking individual and was never more than an adequate NFL guard. Without Ronnie Diaz, Ian Beckles is nothing.
July 18th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
Shove it, Beckles. You don’t even belong in the same paragraph as #74.
July 18th, 2011 at 5:00 pm
Overall, the Buccaneers don’t have a very good history or W-L record. If you exclude the Dungy-Gruden-Morris years, the Buccaneers are the worst team in NFL history. There’s not too many good players you can find from the 1976-1996 creamsicle years. Paul Gruber probably would’ve gone to maybe a pro bowl or two if he had been with a team like the Cowboys or 49ers back then. But would he be a hot candidate for another team’s ring of honor. Most likely not.
July 18th, 2011 at 5:08 pm
Why in the hell should OUR ring of honor discussion start and end with the parameters of outsiders’ popularity contest BS (the Pro Bowl)?
July 18th, 2011 at 5:23 pm
Beckles is a JOKE!!!! If he says Gruber doesn’t belong…then Gruber belongs in my book!!!
July 18th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
Have to go with Beckles, unless for some reason we insist on have guys who played from 90-95, which would make no sense. Gruber out. Mayberry on the outer fringe.
July 18th, 2011 at 5:32 pm
Id pick Mayberry before Gruber, but expect them both to be inducted. Of course this will be years later after our Super Bowl contributors get in. Assuming we do this every year, our list won’t take long to grow.
July 18th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
Is this a fn joke? If he was on the Cowboys or some big name team, he’d be a 7 or 8 time pro bowler with 4 or 5 all-pro selections (I believe he had a couple of those anyways). The pro bowl is, and has been, a joke. It should not, by itself, determine how good a player is (because of players like Gruber). Unfortunately, the media and the hall of fame looks to pro bowl selections as a sign of greatness. This is, however, the Bucs ring of honor…and they know how good Gruber was and how overlooked he was for 12 years. This is Beckles being what he usually is…an idiot.
July 18th, 2011 at 5:37 pm
Gruber goes in……at the current pace….in about 20 years
July 18th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Of course Gruber didn’t get in, we were AWFUL on both sides of the ball when he was here… but very little of it was his fault. Does he deserve to get in right now? No, but he was a damn good player and the turnaround of 97 couldn’t have happened without Gruber manning down LT.
July 18th, 2011 at 6:33 pm
Patrick you idiot. Including the Morris years adds 13-19 (roughly 40%) to the bucs overall franchise winning percentage (roughly 40%). If you consider the franchise record to be bad then you consider the Morris years to be bad.
July 18th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
What an idiot.
July 18th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
Patrick; the Dungy/Gruden/Morris years make up 40% of the franchise’s history. I have an idea as to what point you’re trying to make, but the teams in the late 70’s and very early 80’s had some good to great players.
As for Ian; Last I checked, Doug Williams and Ricky Bell never made a Pro Bowl, and we all know if Doug was still associated with the team or at least didn’t exit the way he did, he would have been next to go into the Ring of Honor. Giles is a great choice and very deserving. Ricky Bell will get in there in the next three years. All deserving. I could see Gruber making the Ring, but at the rate of one player per year, he would have a bit of a wait.
I do know of one former Buc who made a Pro Bowl in 1997 that won’t be in the team’s Ring of Honor anytime soon: Trent Dilfer. A nice guy, happy to see that he won a ring, shame it wasn’t in Tampa in the mid-90’s, etc. but if Ian thinks Trent belongs over Paul Gruber or Richard Wood or Kevin House, he’s outta his mind.
j.
July 18th, 2011 at 9:28 pm
Dumb to not include a player who maned his position every damn game since he was drafted. Played hurt played on bad teams but he brought his A game to a D- team. Why? because he never got voted to the NFL fully paid vacation called the probowl. Yeah like that popularity contest means much. Not to me anyway. Put Gruber in our Buccaneer ring of honor. He has earned it in my mind. Go bucs!
July 18th, 2011 at 9:31 pm
MIKE ALLSTOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 18th, 2011 at 10:30 pm
Thomas you idiot. Maybe if you pulled your head out of your arse for a second you would realize the purpose of Patrick’s post. He is talking about the Bucs in relevance to the ring of honor. His point is that they were so bad for so long that many of the old school players never got the attention they deserved. I’m pretty sure none of the players in Morris’s 2 year tenure are going to be considered for the ring of honor any time soon, so why include his record in the statement? You are such a dumb sh%#!
July 18th, 2011 at 11:29 pm
My order of next inductees:
1. Doug Williams
2. Derrick Brooks
3. Ricky Bell
4. Hardy Nickerson
5. James Wilder
6. Mike Alstott
7. John Lynch
8. Warren Sapp
9. Tony Dungy
9. Warrick Dunn
July 19th, 2011 at 7:28 am
The worst Buc Alumni! His self promoting, at the expense of his teammates, continues to enlarge the slime trail he already has going. Dude! Since when did it become ok to trash your former teammates, just to try to get listeners to a bad radio show? The Fact that Paul Gruber played his entire career here, in obscurity, is why he DOES deserve the recognition! Gruber was a superstar talent, doing his best, on terrible teams( screw you Hugh!).there were a few others who toiled here without notice, but Gruber was the most talented.
As great as he was- I stil think Donald Penn is much better! The more you watch, the more you realize just how dominant Penn is!! I stand by my statement- I still believe Penn is the best Left tackle in Football! He just crushes the top DE’s in the league for entire games- they don’t even win a single play! Just amazing!
July 19th, 2011 at 7:31 am
The worst Buc Alumni! His self promoting, at the expense of his teammates, continues to enlarge the slime trail he already has going. Dude! Since when did it become ok to trash your former teammates, just to try to get listeners to a bad radio show? The Fact that Paul Gruber played his entire career here, in obscurity, is why he DOES deserve the recognition! Gruber was a superstar talent, doing his best, on terrible teams( screw you Hugh!).there were a few others who toiled here without notice, but Gruber was the most talented.
As great as he was- I stil think Donald Penn is much better! The more you watch, the more you realize just how dominant Penn is!! I stand by my statement- I still believe Penn is the best Left tackle in Football! He just
crushes the top DE’s in the league for entire games- they don’t even win a single play! Just amazing! And he’s still a young guy.
July 19th, 2011 at 8:06 am
What a miserable old man you are Beckles. You couldnt carry Grubers jock strap. By far the best left tackle the Bucs ever had. He deserves to be included in the ring for playing 12 years on the worst team of that decade, all the time keeping his mouth shut. So shove something in that pie hole on your face.
July 19th, 2011 at 8:09 am
The Pro Bowl means next to nothing. A popularity contest is all it is. The Cowboys regularly get 5-6 guys in no matter how bad their record is. Penn was the only guy from a 10 win team to make it last year (as an alternate to an alternate).
If we go strictly by who gets into the game (that for some reason matters so much, but for another reason NOBODY EVER watches), I suppose Clifton Smith will be in the ring of honor some day? Mayberry? Dilfer? Shelton Quarles? I think even Randall McDaniel, Jeff Christy, and Keenan McCardell made it there for us. Wayne Haddix made it once… I hardly think these guys (OK, Quarles was a beast for us) are deserving of the Ring of Honor.
I’m thinking only 3 guys even made it to the Pro Bowl in the 80’s for the Bucs: Wilder, Giles, and Carrier. That’s for an entire decade, and before Nickerson came, I’m thinking Haddix was the only guy during the early 90’s.
Paul Gruber was excellent. Very underrated and unappreciated. He wasn’t elite, but he would have been considered an excellent player if he were a Cowboy..he was definitely better than crackhead Mark Tuinei who made several Pro Bowls.
July 19th, 2011 at 8:22 am
My top 10 list of Ring Bucs:
1) James Wilder-greatest RB/offensive player in history of franchise-for now
2) Doug Williams-would’ve gone on to become franchise QB this franchise hasn’t had-until now
3) Hardy Nickerson-signing him helped change the atmospher and mentality of the Bucs-was instrumental in creating a winning attitude in Tampa
4) Warren Sapp-did not accept the losing ways and took it upon himself to create a championship persona for the team
5) Derrick Brooks-along with Sapp, helped team take next step-best LB in franchise history
6) John Lynch-big plays, big hits, big-time player
* Ronde Barber-see Lynch with smaller hits but even bigger plays
7) Simeon Rice-sackmaster that was missing link for championship caliber D
8) Tony Dungy-his calming influence and steady hand changed the franchise when it was in a state of flux-losing and possibly leaving
9) Paul Gruber-stalwart OT that tied two eras together, LT wasn’t the same until Penn emerged (though Deese was decent).
10) John McKay-helped bring football to Tampa-the respectability to Bucs.
Yes, there’s no Ricky Bell (I have a Bell jersey so I do love him). Yes, he had a good year in 79, and yes, he would’ve had a better career had he not been stricken with a horrible disease. But much like Horace Copeland’s knee, Michael Clayton’s hands, Vinny Testaverde’s low IQ, or Steve Young’s trade, Bell’s sickness was an impediment beyond his control that kept him from achieving or sustaining greatness on the field. He was the Offensive MVP for the 1979 Bucs and for him, that is enough recognition because he was either too injured, sick, or simply ineffective to ever be considered great in my book.
July 19th, 2011 at 8:44 am
Guys, he was NOT on the Cowboys though, he was on the Bucs. We can take ANY player, put them on the 49ers in the 80s and they’d be better statistically. You cant do that.
Paul Gruber was a durable, excellent Left Tackle. But he was no Anthony Munoz. The list of Orange clad players is going to shrink quickly, only a couple more can be expected to go into the ring.
So far, we have NO CRITERIA ever given by the glazers for what decides a ring of honor. Beckles makes a point, and to be honest, Steve Wilson should go in the ring before Mayberry, and lets not forget Randy Grimes. There was a time in 1999 when you could look back at the whole franchise of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and those three were the only Centers the Bucs ever had!
But thats longevity. WHat about talent? some of the Best Bucs linemen didn’t play for more than a few seasons. Dave Reavis was probably a better left tackle than anyone, at least rivaled Gruber for talent. Sean Farrell, Charlie Hannah, Greg Roberts, George Yarno, Randy Grimes, and yes, Ian Beckles was an excellent talented OL man.
But the ring of honor should be for the best Bucs. Bucs that stand out in the lore of the franchise. the simple fact that people today still talk about Gruber, when most people couldn’t place more than one or two of the names Ive mentioned ere, should tell you that Paul Gruber deserves to be mentioned for the Ring of Honor.
We don’t keep stats for Offensive Lineman, so we cant go by that. really only the powers that be can decide if Paul is going to go or not. It wouldn’t bother me either way, I know he was a good player, thats enough for me.
June 23rd, 2012 at 10:40 am
I agreement with you Capt.Tim Paul Gruber deserves every not of it.