Bucs 2008 Draft: D+
May 18th, 2011
"Damnit, I never said I was Mel Kiper. I'm a quarterback guru. Look what I did for Gradkowski!"
The reason why former Bucs Super Bowl-winning coach Chucky is watching football games and not coaching the Bucs is simple: His drafts were simply horrid.
Recently USA Today went through the Bucs 2008 draft with Chucky and it is simply frightening to look at. So much so Nate Davis gave Chucky a D+.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: First-round CB Aqib Talib is long on ability but may be short on chances in Tampa; he had off-field issues before he was drafted, and his latest arrest may lead to his release after the lockout. The Bucs took a chance on Appalachian State WR Dexter Jackson in Round 2; he never caught a pass before getting pink-slipped. Fifth-round T/G Jeremy Zuttah has started 30 games while undersized sixth-round LB Geno Hayes managed to lock up the starting weak side job.
Let’s take a quick gander at that draft:
1. Aqib Talib, CB: Troubled.
2. Dexter Jackson, WR: Pppfffttt!
3. Jeremy Zuttah, OG: Not bad, could start on the right side if Davin Joseph is not re-signed.
4. Dre Moore, DT: Pppfffttt! Joe remembers hearing a member of the Bucs press corps claim the Bucs front office was not crying Monte Kiffin left the team because he wouldn’t play Dre Moore. Gee, Joe wonders why?
5. Josh Johnson, QB: Solid “career backup.”
6a. Geno Hayes, LB: Joe loves Geno but let’s be honest, his play has been, well, inconsistent.
6b. traded to Kansas City in 2007 for RB Michael Bennett
7a. traded to Denver in 2007 for QB Jake Plummer
7b. Cory Boyd, RB: Boyd will forever be known as the guy who threw down with Talib at a rookie symposium about finances, a harbinger of things to come.
Any reason why Chucky’s not prowling the sidelines at The CITS?
May 18th, 2011 at 10:27 am
Speaking of Talib, I believe his Bucs future or fate will be in trial today
May 18th, 2011 at 10:48 am
The only Bucs GM worse then Rich McKay is Bruce Allen. I already rate Dominik better then both.
May 18th, 2011 at 10:55 am
Agreed, but I have to qualify this, McKay was passable, Allen on the other hand was never a true GM, even with Oakland and now with Washington, he is a Cap guy, always has been, he was never a talent evaluator or a draftnik. His sole job was controlling the Cap, and apparently he didn’t do that to well either, as both the Raiders and Bucs had cap issues under him and when he left.
May 18th, 2011 at 10:57 am
Dom is great, but McKay drafted our Super Bowl Team including names like Sapp, Brooks, Alstott, Lynch…not to mention picking up Hardy and drafting Dunn. He brought keyshawn, McCardel, and Jeraviscious (spelling may be off). He left us in cap hell, but that happens to most Super Bowl teams. The Pats and Steelers are just the best at keeping the price of the players down and winning at the same time. Atlanta, except this last draft, has done pretty well too. I think ATL thinks they are only missing a piece or two, and we all think they are nuts. Let’s hope we are right and ATL gave up too much for a SB run.
May 18th, 2011 at 11:11 am
How sad that many of you have forgotten the A+ job that Rich McKay did while he was the GM. He inducted his father into the ring of honor but he arguably belongs there even more. He was at the helm when we went from a joke to a contender. Sure Dungy, Chucky, and some luck played a big part but perhaps none greater than McKay.
May 18th, 2011 at 11:17 am
Sure, McKay brought us those SuperBowl team players, but could you imagine if he would have been allowed to hire Marvin Lewis as our head coach after Dungy? Players or not? Our Super Bowl would not exist!
May 18th, 2011 at 11:27 am
@McBuc – I’m under the impression Sam Wyche picked Sapp, Brooks, Alstott and Lynch. Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m not sure of McKay’s role during that time. Yes, McKay brought good free agents under Gruden’s first year, Pittman, McCardell and Jurevicius were solid.
At drafting though, I dont give McKay much credit. He spent two 1st rounders on Keshawn, a 1st and 2nd rounders on Kenyatta Walker, a 1st rounder on Reidel Anthony, a 1st rounder on oft-injured Anthony McFarland, and then the Gruden trade killed his next two drafts. Dunn was nice but a #12 pick?
May 18th, 2011 at 11:39 am
McKay was General Manger from 93-03. That would cover the awesome 95′ draft. Although, I do think Wysche played a very heavy role in drafting Brooks and Sapp! They traded down from 7th overall to get Sapp at no. 12, if you can believe it. Then they traded our two 2nd picks with Dallas to move back up in the 1st to land Brooks!
May 18th, 2011 at 11:42 am
What was great, was the two 2nd rounders we traded were the ones acquired from the 1st round trade down with Eagles.
May 18th, 2011 at 11:48 am
I hear ya on ther Gator receiver. I believe McKay was the GM during that draft, and as the GM he gets credit just like the coach does. It is typically a team effort of sorts.
OAR…That is very true, thank god we ended up with Gruden. I do believe Dungy would have gotten the job done if given a couple more years, but who really knows.
I do not think McKay is the best GM out there, look at the Pats and Steelers for the top two in my opinion. I would hardly call him the worse one in Bucs history though. You cannot hit on them all, and the ransom they paid for Gruden was the Glazers overruling him on Lewis, which as OAR pointed out turned out great. In fact, the huge gamble the Falcons made this year could pay off for them next year.
May 18th, 2011 at 11:51 am
OAR is like encyclopedia Brown…I am sure Wyche had a part in the draft, just like I think Morris plays a big role in the drafts as well. Gruden played a big role in the McKay drafts as well as a huge role in the Allen drafts.
May 18th, 2011 at 11:57 am
@OAR – OK, I’ll lift McKay up from awful to mediocre 🙂 With Wyche he was excellent, without crappy.
For the years between Wyche and Dominik, the drafts were horrid. Keyshawn, Reidel, Walker and Gruden swallowed up most of the 1st rounders during the first half of that time. Allen killed the rest.
Of course, we’d do that Gruden trade again.
May 18th, 2011 at 12:00 pm
I wish we would have gotten Jon Gruden a year sooner. I think he would have won two superBowls with that team! That said, he was horrible at drafting, and even worse at coaching young players! If I had a team that was ready to win a superBowl- Jon Gruden is the man! Just accept his talents for what they are, and don’t keep him around too long!! He is a hired gun to drive a team to be it’s best, NOT to Build Or sustain a team! That still makes him a great Coach- at what he does best!
I thought McKay did a great job here! He fought with Chucky( who doesn’t?), but Chucky would have been better with McKay than Allen- who has no Skillz other than saying “yes Chucky”. We went in Cap he’ll, but as others have said- not uncommon for teams in the title hunt.
May 18th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
I’m not so sure it’s as bad as it seems. Anytime you can grab three starters, one of them of pro-bowl caliber, it’s a good draft. We got that, plus a very good backup QB.
It’s the Dexter Jackson pick that basically ruins it for everybody. If that second round pick had just been serviceable, it could have been a C+ or B draft.
May 18th, 2011 at 12:02 pm
I can live with that Theodore. I am fine with key as well, he was a key piece to the puzzle.r looked good in college, but we see how he did as a pro, and Reidel was awful, and you could have pointed out Quezy Green too. I would have to go look though, I bet he was better than the early and mid 80’s. I was a kid, so a payed attention to the players not the GM. Of course Hugh did not spend much money at all, nor did he field too many winning teams.
May 18th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
Good point Ian…Capt Tim, agreed.
May 18th, 2011 at 12:25 pm
Believe me, I don’t think McKay was the cats meow by any means, but he was GM at that time. He made some bad and some good moves/picks.
And have to agree with Ian and Capt also.
Personally, I think our defense was better, those 2000-01 years, leading up to the SB.
May 18th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
Oar- yeah, me too. I thought that team could of won 3-4 superBowls. But Dungy-who was a great coach- always choked Soooo bad in the playoffs that it really killed us several years in a row.
May 18th, 2011 at 2:03 pm
@Tim – That’s why I’ll never understand the Gruden bashing. Gruden. Won. In. Philly. Crossing Joe Jurevicius past slow LBs was his play with his player. The gameplan along with the whole mindset Gruden set for that week (“We’ll play them on the Walt Whitman Bridge”) was the fearless attitude the Bucs needed.
And having Ronde Barber helped too.
May 18th, 2011 at 2:13 pm
Theodore- Gruden did what they hired him to do- he came in with Guns blazing, and took a great team to a SuperBowl win! Gotta love it!
The hate comes from the disrespect shown to players like Lynch, McCardell, Sapp, and others. Also he came to a team loaded with AllPros and depth. When he left, we had absolutely none of either!
I was happy to see him come to town. I was overjoyed at winning the SuperBowl! But he shoulda been released two years sooner. Let the Man do what he does best- and that isn’t rebuilding a team, or coaching young players!
May 18th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
@Tim – You have a warped sense on history.
How exactly did Gruden disrespect Sapp? By playing him on BOTH defense and offense?
How exactly did Gruden disrespect McCardell? By using him as a #1 WR? By throwing to him twice in the Superbowl endzone?
How exactly did Gruden disrespect Lynch? BY not resigning him after a neck injury?
Seems to me your angst against Gruden is misplaced anger towards Bruce Allen. Get a clue.
May 18th, 2011 at 3:23 pm
It wasn’t Gruden, that made McCardell holdout. He wanted number one WR money, after injuries forced him into that #1 slot during 2003.(his numbers almost doubled that compared to the SB year) New GM Allen wasn’t giving it to him. Maybe he shouldn’t have signed the McKay contract? I hate it, when players don’t fullfil their contracts!
As for Sapp, Kiffin disrespected him! No way, was Booger going to step up and fill that man’s play! We might not have been able to give him his due anyways? I’m sure Kiffin, kicks himself to this day.
And for Lynch, well, roll that injury dice and see what comes up. They were right on the Simeon injury dice roll. 1 out of 2 ain’t bad. Too bad, Simeon was childish about it! I think his SuperBowl ring has “Thanks Sim, Signed Scumbag” ingraved on it!
May 18th, 2011 at 3:49 pm
Sam Wyche was a MAJOR factor for Sapp dropping in stock and coming here. Rumors are Wyche added even more negative connotation to Sapp’s name just so he would fall to us.
May 18th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
OAR…Great post
Chris, if that is true, it makes me like Wyche a little bit better. Wyche may have turned out different if given a couple more years.
May 18th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
Theodore…You are right as well. I do not understand people bashing my man Chucky. He was great to watch on the sideline getting all fired up. He also got us that big win, but I also agree with the Capt…He is a great coach to push a team over the top. Really, Dungy should have been in the Super Bowl instead of the Rams as well, but Chucky slice and diced his way through the playoffs and won the big game with a huge !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 18th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
@McBuc – I love Dungy, but he had plenty of chances to prove he could get the team over the hump and he failed. His offenses came up small in playoff games. Not sure how to sugarcoat that.
I can handle getting TD blanked two years in a row at Philly, but you nailed it with the Ram game. Six points and 200 yards against that Ram defense? That still hurts.
May 18th, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Chris
That’s what I remember, as well!
McBuc
Had the Glazers not pulled the trigger, and brought/bought him in here, Gruden would have taken the Raiders to the SB. Heck, he almost did, if not for the tuck rule. If he would have, Davis never would have traded him. I am glad it all worked out for us!
Hopefully, we can get another one, again!
May 18th, 2011 at 7:25 pm
Call me nuts if you wish, but I’d give this draft a C
1. Aqib Talib: talent wise was a great pick and it’s not everyone else’s fault he can’t grow up.
2. Dexter Jackson: no doubt that he’s a bust.
3. Jeremy Zuttah: good pick. He’s turned out to be a solid player for us and also did a good job filling in for Faine last year.
4. Dre Moore: BUST!
5. Josh Johnson: i’ll say good pick on this one. Maybe he is a backup but we’ve seen him play before and saw how much he improved on this one. He can be a starter in the league someday. Good late round pick.
6. Geno Hayes: average/ok pick. He’s made some nice plays at times but is definitely replaceable as a starter. Great backup. But that’s still good for a 6th rounder.
7. Cory Boyd: Bust, but c’mon he was a 7th rounder.
So there you go. We had 4 players out of this draft who at the very least have been solid and serviceable for us.
Yeah the selection of Dexter Jackson hurts still, considering we could’ve had DESEAN JACKSON since he was still available when we picked! But hey, we’ve got Williams, Benn, and Winslow so it’s all good now!
May 18th, 2011 at 7:43 pm
OAR…AMEN! That is what I always say to the “Gruden won with Dungy’s team” people.
May 18th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
I went to TIA the night he Flew in, once it was official. I was so excited they signed him ! That was a great move by the Glazers! And Jon Did everything I hoped he could! I still have a Lil love for the guy!
But again, he sucks at Drafting, and coaching young Players. Gotta play to a coach’s strength.
May 18th, 2011 at 8:32 pm
Theodore- geez, dude! I get that you don’t agree with me on a couple points. That’s fine. Ya don’t have to. I’ve argued a point for days, then after reading all the post, changed my mind. That’s what this place is for!! Lots of people have disagreed with me. I still like them, and respect their opinions.
It’d be boring with we all agreed all the time! But disagreeing doesn’t make us enemies, or bad guys. Just different opinions!
May 18th, 2011 at 8:56 pm
@Tim – I just don’t like revisionist history. Gruden is great at Xs and Os but sucks as a people person. And that’s why he gets bad rap for McCardell and Sapp. But the facts remain. Grude LOVED McCardell. Gruden LOVED Sapp.
In fact, with McCardell, it was Gruden opening his big mouth and telling McCardell he’d give him a new contract (right?). That’s the opposite of disrespect.
May 19th, 2011 at 8:53 am
Yeah, but Sapp, Lynch, Brooks,Rice, Dunn, Johnson(both), Keyshawn,McCardell,Dwight Smith, and Barber all hate Gruden.
They said he was frequently dishonest with them, and always Demeaning.
Got to be a reason- that’s too many classy players for their not to be some truth to it
Agreed?
May 19th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
“Yeah, but Sapp, Lynch, Brooks,Rice, Dunn, Johnson(both), Keyshawn,McCardell,Dwight Smith, and Barber all hate Gruden.”
And, you know this fact by how?
“They said he was frequently dishonest with them, and always Demeaning.”
That, doesn’t mean they hate the man?
May 19th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
OAR, true, but it surely does not mean they love him either. Most people that are dishonest with you are not people you like. That being said, I have heard that players say he was dishonest, but I have never heard a player say it…
May 19th, 2011 at 9:12 pm
@Capt. Tim
Out of the people that you mentioned, I think only Rice and Keyshawn were ones who REALLY hated Gruden with a passion. But really Keyshawn was just a crybaby. I understand why Rice was upset, but you don’t call someone a “scumbag” over the radio. That’s uncalled for.
Dunn only played 1 year with Gruden in 2008 so they weren’t together for too long. Sapp and Lynch probably didn’t think that highly of him either but I think they got along just fine with him. I liked McCardell and wished they would’ve re-signed him. At the time, I wasn’t a huge football fan yet so I don’t remember exactly what the deal was with McCardell. I didn’t really agree either with the way he benched Brad Johnson in 2004 after just one bad game or two. But I recall that Griese had a nice season that year despite our 5-11 record.
From what I’ve heard, Derrick Brooks has always spoken fondly of Gruden. Same with Barber.
Don’t know much about Dwight Smith.