Are Ticket Sales Team Glazers’ Fault?
May 11th, 2011
Joe’s not big on lists and rankings unless they involve grading bikini contest entrants. But Joe does read such lists.
A recent one from BSPN ranks the Top-10 owners in the NFL. Team Glazer didn’t get a vote from the BSPN experts, and no voting criteria was explained.
Voter and NFC South blogger Pat Yasinskas, however, shared some of his logic for ommitting Team Glazer, which surely has had its share of shining successes on and off the field. Yasinskas wagged a finger of blame at Team Glazer for the Bucs’ lousy attendance in 2010.
I thought about the ownership for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and New Orleans Saints, but neither came close to making my ballot.
Although I’ve frequently said the Glazer family, which owns the Bucs, seems to get a strange and disproportionate dislike from the fan base, I didn’t see this as a legitimate candidacy for the top 10. The Glazers have won a Super Bowl and done some other good things, but they couldn’t sell out their stadium for a single home game last season.
Joe’s all about accepting responsibility. While the poor economic factors at play locally are real, does anyone think the Bucs’ ticket sales and marketing staff deserves an A grade for 2010? Joe sure doesn’t.
Joe hopes Team Glazer takes a hard look at how it sells and markets tickets, which don’t sell themselves anymore in many NFL cities. Having a good team and prime time games should make a significant difference in 2011. Joe will be left speechless if the Bucs can’t muster a sellout for Monday Night Football in October.
May 11th, 2011 at 10:43 am
@Joe: “Are Ticket Sales Team Glazers’ Fault?”
Of course. Dating back to the acquisition of MANU the talent level on this roster has been both financially and skill at the bottom of the league. Numerous reliable news articles place the BUCS as the lowest payroll team since MANU.
This affects the communities excitement for the franchise. Bucs games used to be an event: Chucky leading – Sapp, Brooks, Keyshawn, Lynch, Alstott, Rice, Ronde, Keenan, Joe J, Joey G., Brian Kelly, Jeff Garcia, Dunn, Caddy (pre-injury) etc. Slowly, the Glazers didn’t want to pay those guys so the franchise let them slip away (I agree that some did not have much left).
You can argue that they didnt draft well – well then go out and acquire some talented (probably expensive) free agents. Nope, they required Gruden to sign the fringe free agent like: Ike Hilliard, Warrick Dunn (second time) Kevin Carter, Cato June types (solid but affordable players). I believe it was the Glazers restraints on the budget that caused this. Why? Because at that time the Glazers had seat licenses $ paid for up front that locked in ticket sales for I believe it was 10 years initially and then another 3 years which ended in 2009. We were all committed to our season tickets so it didnt matter what the roster looked like b/c in virtually every other year Gruden led them to a division title.
I believe that animosity arose between the Glazers and Gru/Allen regarding player acquisition and the Glazers wanted to can Allen (not Chucky) but Chucky said it is both or none (I have only circumstantial evidence and conjecture to support this but believe it will come out later after Grudens contract expires).
This team full of kids, undrafted free agents, late round draft picks and cast-offs is not attractive to the public which already cant stand the Glazers. If you ask marginal fan (who you need for sellouts) to name players on the defense they say: Ronde Barber. On offense: Freeman, maybe).
Forcing games overseas instead of working your market by making the team a legit contender (not barely beating Troy Smith, Matt Moore, Jimmy Clausen, Max Hall and Jake Delhomme) with stars supplemented by kids makes the average fan – ho hum – about the org.
You can’t diagree, honestly, with the notion that if Bill Cowher were named coach tomorrow that the stadium would be sold out completely next year. Cheap head coach / roster = lackluster interest.
May 11th, 2011 at 10:56 am
I can partially agree with Thomas. The names you mentioned Sapp, Lynch, etc. were all players that built there own reputation in Tampa, exactly what our current players are doing now. If we don’t sell out this year there is no doubt in my mind we won’t sell out in 2012, now that we have a few prime time games it’ll help with our exposure and popularity in result draw people into the stands.
May 11th, 2011 at 11:31 am
“You can’t diagree, honestly, with the notion that if Bill Cowher were named coach tomorrow that the stadium would be sold out completely next year. Cheap head coach / roster = lackluster interest.” – 2.2 inches
You’re dumb
May 11th, 2011 at 11:33 am
Vote the “I Have No F*****G Clue What I’m Talking About Ticket”
TRUMP & 2.2 in 2012!!!
May 11th, 2011 at 12:06 pm
Nothing like a little bourbon in the morning!
May 11th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
What a complete fool. So if the Chin was here then all the BS about the economy would magically disappear right? Just shut up.
May 11th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
I was looking at getting tickets for one of the games (I think ATL) and the only seats available were in the 300’s……at more than $100 a pop.
Meanwhile, the Lightning are selling $30 tickets for the playoffs and selling out every single game.
May 11th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
CreamsicleBananaHammock
Apples vs. Oranges, my man.
There’s a reason that the NHL doesn’t have a major network deal for their postseason…
If you want to make that argument, the Rays have $10 tickets and were the best team in baseball last year AND STILL HAD TERRIBLE ATTENDANCE!!
Was that the Glazers’ fault as well??
May 11th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
NBC is not a major network?
May 11th, 2011 at 1:28 pm
^^ egg on face. I apologize, NBC…
That still doesn’t mean that an NHL ticket and an NFL ticket are equal value…
May 11th, 2011 at 1:39 pm
I am going to Indiana to watch USF whoop the Irish, and the cost of admision…$135, yep…for a college game!
Sapp’s leaving was Kiffin’s decision, Sapp has said so publically. Lynch had an injury that many do not come back from, they gambled that he was done and lost big time. the 2009 purge needed to be done to start the youth movement, the way it was done is niehter here nor there. I also remember hearing the Allen was told to fire Gruden, and he refused…so out the door he went.
May 11th, 2011 at 2:08 pm
Joe here,
@CreamsicleBananaHammock – you wrote: “I was looking at getting tickets for one of the games (I think ATL) and the only seats available were in the 300′s……at more than $100 a pop.
Meanwhile, the Lightning are selling $30 tickets for the playoffs and selling out every single game.”
The Bucs have very few seats at $100 in the 300 level, and prices have dropped for this season. Most were a lot less than that price last year. Bucs ticket prices are not big money compared to the rest of the league, and they’ve got season ticket payment options and no seat licenses.
Comparing the Lightning and Bucs is beyond apples and oranges.
May 11th, 2011 at 2:19 pm
@Gary: Your argument assumes that the economy is 100% of the problem – erroneous assumption. This team stopped selling out games only after Gruden was fired (after the economic downturn and sold out games under gruden with a bad economy) bc a no name no experience coach was put in charge of a team of nobodies that won 3 games and because people with less disposable income chose to use it elsewhere. The public isnt yet buying into a team that won a fluke 10 games but finished in third place in its division.
May 11th, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Joe here,
@Thomas 2.2 — Let’s wake up a bit. The Bucs started struggling to sell tickets in 2007, which Joe has documented. (Don’t feel like fishing out link). Among the anecdotal evidence, the last playoff game was overrun with Giants blue, and Mike Alstott Night on Sunday Night Fooball, October 2008, still had plenty of tickets left at Ticketmaster hours before the event, which had its share of empty seats. And the Bucs were 4-2 entering the game, if memory serves.
May 11th, 2011 at 2:50 pm
Again, if you’re a fan and want to go to a game, you will find a way. Otherwise, don’t whine. You obviously didn’t really want to go, so you didn’t go.
From at least since I was old enough to realize it, Tampa has always been a bandwagon city. Its a desireable area to live in, so we get a huge population of so called transplants leaving other areas that are less desireable to live in. These transplants keep their team loyalties. Its hard to see any sort of support from the community as a whole this way.
May 11th, 2011 at 2:51 pm
As a former season ticket holder I can say yes the Glazes are to blame. After the SB tickets, parking, and concessions went through the roof while the team was the lowest spending in the NFL. The Glazers had us locked in to the 10 year contract and took the fans for granted. Now that those contracts are gone, so are the fans. I thought I would have those tickets forever, but who wants to invest in a team run on the cheap…
May 11th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
I will NEVER pay $100 for any NFL ticket, EVER!…or $9 for a beer.
May 11th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
Joe,
The Giants fans at the playoff games bought tickets already purchased by Bucs fans (except for what the visiting team is allocated). If you recall, this was a major topic of discussion on sports talk how bucs fans were selling their tickets to Giants fans on STUBHUB at a major profit. I am not saying that is good, I am saying that is very different than a ticket not purchased at all.
And as for your recollection of the Alstott game, I remember it differently, here are the stats:
Week 7: at Tampa Bay Buccaneers 1 2 3 4 Total
Seahawks 0 0 3 7 10
Buccaneers 7 10 0 3 20
at Raymond James Stadium, Tampa, Florida
Game time: 5:15 PM PDT
Game weather: Clear; 75 °F; Humidity: 48%; Wind: NNE 10–15 mph
Game attendance: 64,811(sellout)
May 11th, 2011 at 5:03 pm
When Thomas saw the headline for this article, his fingers had an orgasm.
May 11th, 2011 at 5:21 pm
Espo:
The bucs sold out every game for about 13 years. Then rah rah was hired, the team gutted and 3-13.
May 11th, 2011 at 5:56 pm
Yep Thomas, you are right. I know when I forked out my $200 per ticket, I do it to watch the coach roam the sidelines. It’s so much more exciting than watching Freeman, Williams, and Blount score TD’s. This one time, I actually saw Gruden throw down his headset in disgust. Man, I will never forget that moment for as long as I live.
May 11th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
Let me bottom line this for Thomas, Joe and everyone else.
There were multiple factors attrubuting to the lack of sellouts last year and before that. Don’t assume there wasn’t, because that would be unrealistic. Here’s a countdown of the top 5 reasons:
#5 – Jon Gruden.
He had finally strong 2 winning seasons together, but it was too little – too late. Not everyone agreed he needed to go, but the majority certainly did. Toward the end of his reign, fans started boycotting hte games to send a message…and it worked. And yes, there was a boycott…because it was organized by fans on the Bucs own forums at the time.
#4 – Raheem’s lack of direction in year one.
First he was promoted to Defensive Coordinator, and a week or so later to Head Coach. Looking back now, most feel the Bucs got a good deal, but at the time there was a LOT of uncertainty. He started talking about a 3-4 Defense and getting away from the West Coast Offense. He brought in big guys like Dre Moore, Ward at rb and otehrs that just did not fit the traditional role in Tampa.
Simply put, fans did not want the Tampa 2 to go…this town made it’s mark with it. And as it turned out, the new system sucked. There is a reason a full 3-4 Defense does not work here…the heat. Big guys can’t handle it. That’s why Sam, Tony and Monte put together small fast guys for the Tampa 2.
#3 – The 3 win season.
Some of the games did sell out during Raheem’s first year. There was some excitement in the air. But fans were let down in a major way. They retaliated and decided other things were more important then showing up at games.
And somewhere along the way in his first season, the fans money started running low and they needed it to pay bills, attend Rays games and Lightning games, or just plain saved it. Which leads us into…
#2 – Economics.
As time went on, people just didn’t even have the money to get the tickets. People were/are hurting, and last year the Glazers made a token gesture of lowering prices. That was the perception.
After the previous season, the fans needed to send a message, and the Glazers heard it. This year, they’ve lowered prices and worked out a great financing plan.
#1 – No Hope.
Sure, last year the Bucs won 10 games, but the overall perception was that the schedule was the reason. Personally, I didn’t feel that way, but many did. After the 3-13 season the year before, the Glazers APPARENT unwillingness to spend in Free Agency, and a draft that yeilded some good results, but not showing up on defense on the field (in fans perception), the fans simply did not want to jump in without seeing more. They wanted to be sure this new Bucs team was not a one year wonder.
In addition, we Tampa fans have seen players that were also one year wonders. Caddy, Clayton, etc. The fans want to see things carry over into the new season.
In theory…
…I believe we will see sellouts this year. Anticipation has been building. Raheem and Dominick made a statement the last two drafts…they full intend on rebuilding the Tampa 2 defense.
I think if the Bucs at least split the first 4 games (hopeflly they’ll do better than that), fans will start showing up more and more at the games. The crowds will steadily increase.
And this new deal on season tickets is making it very tempting, even to people that have never held season tickets.
And my prediction for the new season will be…
10-6 or better. And this will surprise every one…I’m predicting the Bucs will not only make hte Playoffs, but will make it to the second week or better.
Personally, I hope one day we see a Bucs vs Jets SB…just to settle who is the best QB.
May 11th, 2011 at 6:02 pm
They stopped selling out games BEFORE Raheem, Thomas. Don’t edit history. 3-13, as I mentioned above, played a role in last year…not the years before.
May 11th, 2011 at 7:06 pm
Sorry Joe,
But Thomas is continuing to make these conversations SUCK. Every day now when I check in, it’s the same crap, identical arguments from rational fans with a total moron. For a fantastic Buc website, this is a real drag on your place. I sure wish that you would put an end to this nonsense. You, yourself correct and argue with the child at least 3 times per week. How much longer? Really.
May 11th, 2011 at 7:13 pm
There was never a blackout until rah. I dont believe that the glazers ever had to buy tix to avoid blackouts until rah. Coincidence-nope.
May 11th, 2011 at 7:17 pm
Bigmac: joes viewership is extremely high even during a lockout.
Do u think that anyone comes here to listen to you complain about me? Contribute substantively or stay on the sidelines where u belong.
May 11th, 2011 at 7:45 pm
Joe here,
@Thomas 2.2 – Joe wrote a story hours before Mike Alstott night detailing available tickets. It’s in the archives. It’s fact. The Glazers were buying up tickets back then, just too few to be noticed..
The facts don’t backup your take. Look at sellout numbers from 2002 and sellout numbers from 2007. The total attendance is significantly smaller in 2007. That means that much fewer club seats were sold in ’07, as those premium seats don’t count toward the blackouts.
The decline started before Raheem got here.
May 11th, 2011 at 7:52 pm
I always supported Gruden until the end, but the stadium was empty his last two years and it continued into this new regime. The Giants playoff game only sold out because 25,000 NY fans purchased the tickets. Everyone knew the Bucs had no chance in that game and that was the beginning of the end. The fact that our season tickets increased 100% in 11 years and walk up ticket window tickets were $100 left many empty seats in the Stadium. Cities like Green Bay that only have football and really nothing else will continue to do well. Other cities that offer multiple sources of entertainment will see their NFL teams suffer in sales.
May 11th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
Nice rip on BigFatMac thomas!
Fat ass big mac eating pig!
May 11th, 2011 at 8:15 pm
“joes viewership is extremely high even during a lockout.
Do u think that anyone comes here to listen to you complain about me? Contribute substantively or stay on the sidelines where u belong.”
—
By the same token, do you think anyone comes here to listen to you complain about Raheem, McCoy, and the Glazers? Are you somehow trying to take credit for Joe’s viewership being high? And do you honestly think you contribute by repeating the same twisted facts over and over again? And when Joe calls you on it, you won’t respond. Go ahead, respond to Joe’s post towards you about attendance in 2007. You know you won’t, because you know you are wrong. I guarantee you that if you disappeared, not one person would care. In fact 99.9% of us would probably throw a party.
May 11th, 2011 at 9:18 pm
Imagine!
May 11th, 2011 at 9:20 pm
BigMacAttack:
If Joe had to ban people for being wrong, he’d have no commenters. 🙂
May 11th, 2011 at 9:21 pm
Thomas 2.2:
Bears and Packers fans are on the floor, curled into a fetal position they are laughing so hard.
May 11th, 2011 at 10:43 pm
Thanks Joe, I’ll just hope for better days. Been here a long a$$ time. I know this ball club won’t let me down.
As for Thomas & RahWillBringBackRuud. If you boys only knew.
It’s really too bad we can’t have these discussions in a bar or at the Games. The story might have a slightly different ending. Really.
May 11th, 2011 at 11:02 pm
“Joe will be left speechless if the Bucs can’t muster a sellout for Monday Night Football in October.”
If the game is not sold out, they better f***ing buy the tickets. Could you imagine not being able to see your team on national television?! Hell, can they even black out a nationally televised game when it’s on a non-affiliate channel like ESPN?
And honestly, it really gets annoying constantly hearing the economy excuse for why tickets aren’t selling. There’s NO healthy economy in the United States right now! But there’s venues and stadiums that sell out all across the country. The LIONS or as Joe puts it “The rebuilding since 1957 Detroit Lions”, sold out more games last year then we did in a WORSE economy. Detroit, one of the most miserable cities in the country!
The team could be selling more tickets. And I realize the economy sucks and is a reason, but when there’s as many as 20,000 or more empty seats, you’ve got a huge problem. This is not the only reason. If it is, then why were the Bucs selling out during the 2008 season when the country was already in an economical crisis?
Once they signed Sluggo, CCC, and released Brooks, Dunn, Galloway and all the fan favorites, the problems started from there. And yes, things are MUCH better now than they were in 2009, but unfortunately, I think there’s a lot of people like Thomas and Eric out there who will unhappy no matter what they do on the field.
The Glazers lowered ticket prices significantly after the 2010 season so if there’s no improvement in attendance, then I don’t know what everyone’s problem is.
May 11th, 2011 at 11:16 pm
Patrick:
Comparing a rust belt sports market to Florida is like comparing a buckeye to an orange.
How many Pittsburgh transplants live in Detroit? How many Philly transplants live in Detroit? How many Jersey transplants are there in Detroit? Or Wisconsinites? Or Chicagoans? Joe’s willing to step out on a limb and suggest very few.
What is the percentage of retired people in Detroit compared to Tampa Bay? Pretty damned low Joe’s going to bet and retirees generally don’t flock to buy season tickets for any sport.
People who don’t think the Florida economy is not a significant factor are simply living in a gated, dream world community with a secure job and mortgage paid off.
May 11th, 2011 at 11:49 pm
Nah, Joe. It’s all because of Raheem. Come on, man, Thomas said it so it must be true. We all know he is full of sh@t, I mean knowledge.
May 12th, 2011 at 11:42 am
Joe said: “Comparing the Lightning and Bucs is beyond apples and oranges.”
Not to the guy who’s opening his wallet. $30 is still less than $100.