“The Bucs Will Do Everything They Can”
January 29th, 2011
Sniffing around all week at the Senior Bowl, Tampa Tribune beat writer Woody Cummings has dumped the tidbits in his notebook into a nifty little piece on TBO.com.
Among many subjects, Cummings writes of the Bucs’ commitment to the right side of their offensive line.
Should free agency come around, the Bucs will do everything they can to retain RG Davin Joseph. Though Derek Hardman played well in Joseph’s absence late last season, the Bucs believe Joseph is an integral part of their offensive line. They don’t necessarily feel the same about RT Jeremy Trueblood, but probably will try to retain him anyway. The Bucs don’t want to cut into their newfound depth along the offensive front, and letting Trueblood go would do that. …
ProFootballtalk.com reported Thursday that NFL teams will, in fact, have the typical use of their franchise player tags at the end of February. There was much uncertainty surrounding the franchise tag and the potential lockout.
The Bucs probably could slap the franchise tag on Davin Joseph for about $10.5 million, per Joe’s research.
With the uncertainty surrounding 2011 free agency, which would be stopped and later restructed if a lockout kicked in early next month, maybe the safe route for the Bucs is to make Joseph their franchise guy rather than risk losing him on the market.
Joe can’t see a lot of negatives in making that move. Joe’s always leery of big guys and foot injuries, which Joseph has had during multiple seasons.
What’s wrong with making Joseph prove he’s durable before breaking the bank for him?
January 29th, 2011 at 10:05 am
I hear you Joe but don’t you think other teams may be hesitant to break the bank on a guy who’s had the foot injuries you described?
January 29th, 2011 at 10:48 am
The Glazerhouses probably consider 10.5 mill for any player not a stud qb – “breaking the bank.” If I were ownership, I would do exactly what Joe suggests, but Joe and I aren’t these penny pinchers and I will be surprised yet happy if they franchise or commit to Joseph.
Anyone, that’s right anyone, who says that DJ is not excellent and a pro bowl caliber guard who is clearly superior to Hardman is clueless about O-Line play.
Hardman seems to be a competent backup but you are dealing with a small sample size.
I will concede that if these Glazerhouses lock-up Joseph or franchise him (awithout dumping another big salary like k2) then that will be a positive sign. I just don’t see it happening.
Also, Trueblood is an above average run blocker with thump and a nasty streak. He has the potential to be excellent. I agree that he is the culprit of many, stupid, often untimely penalties that frustrate me – but when it comes to physicality, I like what he brings. I would attempt to resign him.
I would not be shocked if someone throws surprising money at him.
January 29th, 2011 at 11:06 am
Didn’t they franchise Bryant for 9+ million a couple of years ago?
January 29th, 2011 at 11:26 am
Yes, and I think Dom got ridiculed for that. Also, that was a 1200 yard wr coming off a big season when, believe it or not, rah and dom thought this team would be competing for the division title with hefty llefty leading the way.
I think the a.b. experience makes it less likely that they franchise d.j.
January 29th, 2011 at 12:04 pm
As I recall, Dom tried hard to sign Bryant to a reasonable contract. Bryant wanted crazy money, which we can both agree was rediculous. My point is that they attempted to lock him up long-term. When that failed, they franchised him. It turned out to be a disaster, but they did what they had to do to keep a player they held in high regard. I think they will take the same approach with Joseph. Time will tell. If the Glazers go cheap, after the strides this team made last season to become a relevant team again, I will be on board with you Thomas.
January 29th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
Franchise him. I don’t want to see him lined up against us.
January 29th, 2011 at 12:44 pm
While I would like to keep both of them, I really think both of their time is past. Keeping them for depth is a great idea, that I hope is possible. We have better Right tackleson the roster than Trueblood. I have always thought he would be a great guard. Most of his penaties are due to the fact that he struggles in space. 95% of his penalties occur when he doesnt have a TE next to him, and he has to cover the corner. Why not Time at LG, where he can play to his strong suits.
Missisg half of the last two seasons bodes badly for Davin Joseph. He is a big guy, and wasn’t blessed with a huge frame. He’s a little over built for his carriage. Thats only an issue, because it can cause base(leg/feet) problems. Driving, leaping, and running at 313#, on legs that were meant for 260-280 max, eventually creates chronic failures in the overloaded parts. There is a real likelihood that is why Davin has missed half of the last two seasons. I hope not. Joe is absolutely right. A one year deal. And let’s see if he holds up. Don’t want to invest long term in a long term injury problem.
January 29th, 2011 at 2:22 pm
This comes as a relief to me. Nothing against Hardman but I was dreading what would happen if he or Larsen got hurt. The next man up thing won’t work at some point. I even understand keeping Trueblood for depth, although he is one guy I wouldn’t want to see the Glazers pay a penny more than he’s worth. However its fairly likely no one is going to get into a bidding war with us for a penalty prone, mediocre right tackle, who lost his starting job last year to no name James Lee.
January 29th, 2011 at 2:27 pm
I still would love to see the Bucs draft an O-lineman somewhere in rds. 2-3 or even rd.1 if thats best player available. I want to see the Bucs have a lineman that is a perennial pro bowl stud. Penn and Joseph are nice but they have each made one probowl-as alternates.
January 29th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
Good call joe
January 29th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
what gitarlvr said.
January 29th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
My opinion is Joseph is the best player on the team. If not then he is right up there. It would be real problem if we let him go as a FA. Also, he has been working that side of the line with True since he came into the league and they work well together. It would be a mistake to let either of them go.
January 29th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
Trueblood is the ONLY O-Lineman I thought they would let go. Then I thought they’d draft an OT, but if they keeo everyone… even better. Great depth and competition.
Looking more and more like the draft will be HEAVILY focused on the defensive front 7. If they keep all their O-Line, I see hem taking 2 DEs and 2 LBs within the first 5 picks.
January 29th, 2011 at 3:19 pm
“Penn and Joseph are nice but they have each made one probowl-as alternates”
No offense gitarlvr, but I think that’s foolish to look at the number of pro bowls they’ve made. Remember, they play in Tampa. Them only making one pro bowl is partly due to the little amount of attention and media exposure the Bucs get. They’re not a popular team and most fans probably don’t even know who they are when it comes time to vote.
Months and months ago when I was having a conversation with my friend about the best LB’s to ever play in the NFL, I mentioned Derrick Brooks as being one. He didn’t even know who he was! unbelievable!
My friend: Derrick Brooks? Who’s that?
Me: Um….I think he’s a future HOF LB that made the pro bowl 11 damn times!
He mentioned people like Ray Lewis, Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary and Demarcus Ware. But no Derrick Brooks.
No one knows who Aqib Talib is either and he’s without a doubt a top 5 corner in this league. He’s made 0 pro bowls and he’s played great in each of his 3 seasons.
No one knew who Mike Williams was this year after he turned out to be the best rookie WR in the league. No, all I heard about was “Dez Bryant”. But he plays for the Cowboys so that explains why he gets a bunch of undeserved attention. Don’t get me wrong, he had a good season too but 1) it wasn’t anywhere near as good as Williams and 2) his team was a major disappointment this year and sucked bad.
I’m happy that Penn made the pro bowl this year but he should’ve made it the first time, along with K2, Freeman and Talib (if he was not injured). Hell, you could even make an argument for Ronde Barber. Charles Woodson, selected to the pro bowl, had the same amount of INT’s Barber did (2).
January 29th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Ok well I actually thought I was being nice. I mean Donald Penn- I don’t actually know how Donald Penn even got appointed an alternate.
As per Pro Football Focus-Only ten tackles have yielded more pressure than Penn this season (five sacks, eight hits, 33 pressures). And that was before weeks 16 and 17 so he could have actually given up more pressure the last two weeks although he it seemed to me he played well in those games. I mean true pro bowl left tackles don’t let Detroit Lions backup DE’s harass their QB all day long. Freemans escapability makes Donald Penn look better than he is. The fact is Josh spent too much time running away from blindside pressure this year.
And Davin Joseph wasn’t even near Penn’s level this year.
Im not hating on those guys. They both HAVE played at pro bowl levels in the PAST- Davin the year he was voted as an alternate and Penn in his stellar 2008 campaign(which he hasn’t even come close to replicating).
I think that getting a perennial probowler somewhere on that line is necessary and will help the entire line raise their level of play. (Kind of like where this line was heading when Aaron Sears was in there and starting to look dominant).
This entire offensive line underachieved this year. Free and Blount made them look less bad than they actually were. Free with his escapability and Blount with his 50 broken tackles which led ALL running backs.
Im sorry but IMHO getting a truly dominant lineman in here is just as much a need as DE or LB.
January 29th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Losing Davin Joseph would not hurt this team much in my opinion. He has never played up to his billing. Our starting offensive line was considered the “most disappointing, underachieving unit in the NFL” prior to last season by several Sources, including “lindy sport Draft issue”. As I said last spring, this O-Line has never played well, or up to it’s billing. Despite the leagues highest paid center, and 2 high round draft picks, the line was midiocre at best. Last season, the line played it’s best in the last half of the season. That’s when Joseph, Faine, and Trueblood were not playing. Both our Pass offense and Blount’s per carry average were at their finest. Who was playing O- line when we crushed playoff bound Seattle? When we beat SuperBowl champs New Orleans at home? Heres a clue – not Davin Joseph. I would like to see him stay for depth. But I don’t believe he has ever been the guard we all hoped he would be.
January 29th, 2011 at 4:16 pm
Why throw 10.5 mio. at him when you can sign him easily for 2 years with this money?
January 29th, 2011 at 4:33 pm
Joe here,
BurGi – They won’t get Joseph longterm for that kind of guaranteed money.
January 29th, 2011 at 5:20 pm
Where’s the love for Derek Hardman? As I posted in another Buccaneers site, I think that he is very underrated.
Hardman was a four-year starter at Eastern Kentucky and he was awarded All-Conference honors as a senior. Derek spent his first two years at right tackle before moving to left side as a junior. He has good size, (6’6”, 300lbs) and uses it to his advantage. Hardman gets his hands into defenders and controls them at the point of attack, and plays with good leverage. He is also very quick at recognizing blitzes and works hard until the whistle blows. He didn’t come from the big name school, but he has all the tools to be dominant at the NFL level.
Ever since Davin Joseph went down a foot injury, the Buccaneers running game has really flourished. I think Derek Hardman has been a big reason why. Just look at the stats:
Week 15 vs Detroit:
LeGarrette Blount – 15 carries, 110 yards (7.3 yards/carry)
Cadillac Williams – 7 carries, 38 yards ( 5.4 yards/carry)
Josh Freeman – 5 carries, 29 yards (5.8 yards/carry)
In his first career start, Hardman lined up against Pro Bowl defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh. Hardman really held his own, limiting Suh to no sacks and just two solo tackles. It was Suh’s worst statistical performance of the year.
Week 16 @ Seattle: LeGarrette Blount – 18 carries, 164 yards (9.1 yards/carry)
Cadillac Williams – 4 carries, 21 yards (5.3 yards/carry)
Josh Freeman – 4 carries, 23 yards (5.8 yards/carry)
Week 17 @ New Orleans: LeGarrette Blount – 19 carries, 66 yards (3.5 yards/carry)
If you look closer into LeGarrette Blount’s stats, he is averaging 6.5 yards/carry when he runs on the right side. He rushed on Hardman’s side 35 times this year for 265 yards.
Why give Davin Joseph the franchise tag or a big contract when there was no drop off in the running game after his injury? It would be a shame to have this guy spending the 2011 season on the bench.
January 29th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
I disagree with your analysis of Penn, gitarlvr. First of all, you don’t get voted to the Pro Bowl (even as an alternate) as a Tampa Bay Buccaneer unless you have truly earned it, especially as an undrafted player. I’ll give you he made a couple bad plays against Detroit, but all players have bad games. I never saw him give up another sack all year, with the exception of a couple blown assignments (which may or may not have been his fault – none of us know the blocking assignments).
As for Joseph, that’s such a tough call. He’s had a lot of injuries to pay big money too. However, when healthy and in the right system, he’s nasty and a really good player.
January 29th, 2011 at 6:14 pm
Strange everyone keeps saying how good some of our veteran lineman are, yet no numbers back that up. We have been terrible at running the ball for years, until this year. When none of them were playing. It’s confusing. I think meybe some people think, because they were high draft picks, they must be good players. If you look at our draft history, until Dominick/Raheem, you can see that’s not true. I am concerned that we resign them for two much money, then feel commited to play them. That has been our recipe for failure for several years. I hope we are wiser.I wish the line play was better, but as I’ve been saying for over a year, it’s really not as good as it should be
January 29th, 2011 at 6:18 pm
Penn is a Beast. Zuttah is really good as a cerebral Center, the rookies looked good. Faine is still good when healthy. The rest are really bust. In my opinion( and alot of experts)
January 29th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
Mark- I think Hard is the man, and in our future line for years to come!!
January 29th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Hardman
January 29th, 2011 at 7:40 pm
C’mon, let’s just say what needs to be said, DJ is not the dominant guard we all hoped he would be. Plus, he is injury prone. One year deal, max, as long as it aint too expensive, otherwise bye bye Davin. Hardman is the real deal.
January 29th, 2011 at 7:51 pm
Man, a day without Thomas is like a without Sunshine. WTF???
I like Davin a lot, he is a great character guy. When he is on, he is really on, but last season was arguably his worst. I think the problem was Davin got injured early and played on it which just made it worse. The guy is built like King Kong with long long huge arms. I hope he comes back healthy and stronger than ever. I know he likes MMA and I hope to see him in that sport in the future. He has mad wrestling skills. I would hate for him to lay a rear naked choke on me with those arms. I’m tappppppping out.
January 29th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
Here’ some Thomas bait.Trueblood and Joseph are two more crappy picks by Chucky and Bruce.A first and a second if I recall correctly.I agree with you Capt,the line was much stronger without either one of these guys.Let’s wash our hands of these Gruden leftovers and fill their spots with practice squad players.Don’t think we’ll miss a beat.
January 29th, 2011 at 8:15 pm
Hardman was encouragingly decent for a rookie in limited playing time. He has played far too little at this point for anyone to be reasonably be comfortable in letting Davin Joseph walk though. Depth is a big issue too. O-lineman get hurt with regularity and will be nice to have Hardman available as quality depth.
Apple roof and Capt. Tim- How many games has Hardman played? Its a little early to call him the real deal and the future. Depth is the biggest issue here. Don’t give Hardman too much credit for Legarrette Blount’s ability to shrug off tacklers at the line of scrimmage despite subpar blocking.
January 29th, 2011 at 8:22 pm
Let me correct many misrepresentations that you sheep have put forth about DJ:
1) I have heard repeatedly that “he misses half the games due to injury.”
The truth: since his rookie year, has started 55 of the 64 games – he started all 16 games in 2007 and 2009. I suspect his reliability falls in the better than average category for his position.
2) “He has a small frame”. He does not have a small frame, he is 6’3 and 313 and carries it perfectly for a guard. Nobody knows what is caused his foot injury except for him and I doubt it is because he has a “small frame.” He is a professional football lineman, part of his job description is to have his feet stomped on by 300lb men.
3) That Derek Hardman is a guard, let alone anywhere near a NFL caliber guard who you let a young pro bowl guard go for. Hardman is a tackle, that is all he ever played in college, in fact he never said he played guard until injuries forced him to with the bucs in week 11 or 12. Hardman’ss future is as a backup right tackle, and now he can fill in competently at guard in an emergency basis.
4) That you can look at rushing stats like the ones cited above and say that the replacement of one guard was the difference. There are so many other variables that must be considered before you can make that conclusion – to do so is insulting. Lineman are graded individually on a % scale that some coaches factor out to A, B. C etc. Joseph is a 90% plus graded guard, meaning that he is on the positive side of his matchup and making the right decision more than 9 out of 10 times. I don’t know Hardman’s grade but I know it wasn’t that high.
I know you anti-DJ guys have an agenda. You argue againsst him because he is from the prior regime. Like you always say to me: “be a fan” it doesnt matter who drafted him.
January 29th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
Your out of line Lakeland Bob. Davin is a middle of the pack guard who has played like a top echelon guy at his best and I have every hope he will regain and maintain that form. Trueblood, despite his penalty issues, has also displayed some dominant run blocking ability at his best. Neither have been consistently great so far but o-lineman routinely have up and down years and both are still young guys who have upside left. For the right price, I would welcome both back. Despite my criticism of Donald Penn he did flash dominant left tackle ability in 2008 when he shut down guys like Julius Peppers and Demarcus Ware COMPLETELY. The bucs line underachived last year but is still young and has upside. I say keep the guys we have and try to draft a potential perennial probowler this year who will be the guy that cements this line into one of the NFL’s best.
January 29th, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Please-did you see the run blocking early in the year with Trueblood and Joseph starting?Gale Sayers would have trouble running thru those non-existing holes.Davin Joseph I would like to keep for depth but not with a franchise tag salary.As far as Trueblood,I am not feeling the love.James Lee has played circles around him and he sat on the bench when he was healthy because Raheem went with the better player.
January 29th, 2011 at 8:38 pm
There is no need to feed the trolls guys. Let’s not bash Davin and Jeremy cuz they were drafted by Gruden. If Gruden drafted well at one position it was offensive line. I really think that Sears was emerging as a dominant player and was the glue that was gelling this line into a top tier one. Penn, Zuttah, Joseph and Trueblood are still here from the Gruden days. Larsen, Lee, and Hardman have shown potential from the Rah\dom regime. Lets keep what we have and draft a special guy to pull it altogether. The way mock drafts are looking so far(grain of salt i know..LOL)some of the top O-lineman in the draft will still be available when the Bucs pick at #20. I think the Bucs should sign a midrange DE or two and go O-lineman in round 1 of the draft. Then go defense in the following rounds.
January 29th, 2011 at 8:45 pm
LAkeland Bob- Lets not say Lee played circles around trueblood. How many games did Lee start where Caddy was the featured back instead of BLount? I dont think Blount’s rushing stats would have been too much different with Trueblood in there. Blount made his yards largely in spite of whoever was playing on the o-line. Im not advocating resigning Trueblood to be the starter just that, FOR THE RIGHT PRICE, it would be nice to have him in there competing for the starting job for next season.
January 29th, 2011 at 8:50 pm
Time for Joseph to go.
If you franchise him he will be hurt all next year
January 29th, 2011 at 9:01 pm
wow passthebuc- Im so glad we have a nostradomus on here to tell us exactly who will be hurt next year. I guess its time for Talib, McCoy, Benn and Price to go too since they all ended up on IR this year too.
January 29th, 2011 at 9:03 pm
2.2 = 2.1 = 2.0 = Dufus
January 29th, 2011 at 9:04 pm
Joseph is a good guard who was drafted too high.
January 29th, 2011 at 10:08 pm
Joseph will be a 6 year veteran this year. He’s not getting any better, and is showing signs of chronic injury due to his small frame. Thomas will defend him, As he was yet another mistake by Lil Tommie’s lov, Lil Johnny “can’t coach or draft” Gruden. If an undrafted rookie- without benefit of training camp- plays better in your spot than you do, well, you suck. Don’t know anyway around that one. I wish the line was what we hoped, but it isn’t. The good news is, it looks like we found some great line man on the same Scape heap we found Blount! Our line looked great at the end of the year. There were holes my big ass coulda run thru. We may have a good line, without having to draft any starters.
January 29th, 2011 at 10:33 pm
Thomas, that is the most intelligent post you have made in weeks. I don’t agree with all of it but I do agree about Davin. Quality of linemen play is so often determined by the player on either side of you. As for Hardman, I can not complain and it is not uncommon for college tackles to become guards in the pros. Only the best of the best get the tackle positions. Don’t discount Hardman yet or any of the other makeshift Buc O linemen. They all walked the walk.
January 29th, 2011 at 10:38 pm
Again, anyone who thinks we’d be better off without Joseph doesn’t watch the O line after the snap. Just tunnel vision on whoever has the ball….
January 29th, 2011 at 11:51 pm
Espo- running average when Trueblood, Joseph, Faine, Vincent, And Penn started( 1st 8 games) = less than 3 yards. Running average when Lee, Hardman, Zuttah, Larsen, and Penn Started( last 6 games) = 5+ yards. And that was with 2 undrafted Rookies, signed off someone else’s practice squad. They didn’t even go thru our training camp. Again, when several national publications are calling our O-Line “The most disappointing, underachieving unit in the NFL”, and we can’t run the ball or protect Josh? Yeah, then something is wrong. And that unit ( minus Sears) has been together 3 years. Just no excuse for their poor play. Those guys aren’t young players. They should be playing so well, that the line drops off tremendously when they aren’t playing. Instead, the line improved! Improved! That told me all I needed to know.
January 30th, 2011 at 12:09 am
Capt. Tim- You are being oblivious to the fact that rushing stats when the backups came in were inflated by the fact that Blount had become the full time feature back at that point. Stop ignoring the fact that for much of the time that Faine, Joseph and Trueblood started- Caddy was the guy getting the majority of carries.
January 30th, 2011 at 12:31 am
That was Caddy’s rushing Numbers. Meybe he just . . Got twice as good all Of a sudden?
January 30th, 2011 at 12:37 am
Hey guys, remember Aaron Sears ? Our line was ONCE dominant, when he was playing. Anyone remember that ? It is really too bad about Aaron.
January 30th, 2011 at 12:49 am
Not sure what your talking about Capt. Tim. Caddy’s numbers went up after Blount became the starter and they started handing off to Caddy on third downs when opposing defenses were playing the pass. Even a corpses yards per carry would have gone up in that role, regardless of who was run blocking. Caddy’s yards per carry going up didn’t have much to do with the backup offensive lineman coming in.
January 30th, 2011 at 1:00 am
The line didn’t really improve when the backups came in ,IMO. The level of line play stayed roughly the same, which is to say, relatively poor. The difference in the second half of the season when Joseph, Trueblood and faine were hurt, was that Blount had become the feature back by then and was breaking tackles left and right DESPITE poor line play. Legarrette Blount’s incredible tackle breaking ability(50 broken tackles to lead all NFL backs)is what improved the Bucs running game. Not some kind of incredible turnaround in the quality of blocking.
January 30th, 2011 at 1:28 am
I think Apple hit the nail on the head. When Aaron Sears was playing, Penn, Joseph, and even Trueblood all looked better.
I have been watching the games over for this year and Davin really struggled in some games with run blocking. The Cincy game was the one I watched today, and Davin got mauled twice on the same play call, once with Caddy running and once with Blount. The both had to re-route 5 yards behind the line and try to break it back to the left. Freeman attempted to help block on the cutback both times.
I like Davin and think it would be nice for him to return, but I think we need a dominant guard opposite him like we had when Sears was around for him to be effective again. I’m not sure that’s Larsen. It would actually be nice to have a top notch LG and Larsen and Zuttah as depth.
January 30th, 2011 at 1:53 am
LOL@ Joseph being our best player of the team. Joseph is expendable. Even though the sample size is small for Hardman, we have a good sample size on Joseph from last two seasons that says he is a guard that has been TERRIBLE.
January 30th, 2011 at 5:41 am
Always remember just who the O-line is trying to protect here. I will always advocate for the best security available. Our NFL season depends on it.
January 30th, 2011 at 6:21 am
I think we found those dominant guards- Derek Hardman and Brandon Carter. Watch for Carter this year- even bigger and Stronger than Sears, and absolutely all bad attitude. I think, barring a FA or high draft pick, that our O -line next year will be – LT- Donald Penn , 6’5″ 330( yeah, Right lol), LG- Brandon Carter, 6’5″, 325. Center- Ted Larsen, 6’2″,305. RG- Derek Hardman- 6’6″, 315. RT- Demar Dotson 6’8″, 330″. Backups will be Zuttah, Trueblood, and possibly Faine and Joseph. That is one big, Strong, aggressive line. Add a late round pick or two this year- Freeman will feel like he’s in his mothers Arms. Blount and Caddy will think they are running on I-4 , the holes will be so big. And NOBODY will like playing Defense against us. That O-line looks alot like the Patriots line- and that works for me!! Just my opinion.
January 30th, 2011 at 6:23 am
Forgot James Lee as Depth- played well last year.
January 30th, 2011 at 9:27 am
Pass the buc, if Freeman hurts his thumb again, I guess we should let him go.
Capt Tim, do you really think Faine and Joseph will be back as backups? They’re quality starters, and now we know we have depth behind them. I pretty much agree with everyone about Trueblood though. With him out, we might not have anyone to start fights.
January 30th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
Uh, think I made a pretty good case that they ARE NOT quality starters. They are part of “the most disappointing, underachieving unit in the NFL.” per numerous mags/ expeers. That was two years ago. First half of last season was the same, until injuries interjected some talent. So, if they are quality starters- it’s your little secret. Nobody else thinks so.
January 30th, 2011 at 1:20 pm
Notice the 4 that tim makes nonstarters, all prior regime guys, so pathetically obvious.
That is the kind of stuff that is more than hypocritical, it borders on insane.
Nobody would make those 4 backups to the guys u suggest
January 30th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
I guess I didn’t read those magazines. Anyways, that underachieving unit was a part of an entire underachieving team (last year) and has done nothing but improve under Olson. Our beast running back will make them look better also. I wonder what Blount could’ve done with more carries earlier in the season.
January 30th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
you cant possibly be serious Capt. Tim- You are aware that Brandon Carter did virtually no run blocking in college and that the Texas Tech offensive line plays a freakish system nothing like playing on an NFL offensive line. The guy is going to be a work in progress for a while. There is virtually no chance he could start for a team next year and not have a LONG adjustment period getting used to the NFL. His lack of run blocking experience alone would be a disaster for this offensive line. There is a good reason Brandon Carter went undrafted. He is going to be clueless the first time he steps out there on an NFL field during a game. He has the size and athleticism to develop into a proper NFL lineman but I cant possibly imagine he will be ready to be a quality starter, let alone a dominant guard next year. As for Derek Hardman the guy played a couple of games and was mediocre. So based off that you think he is going to be dominant?
January 30th, 2011 at 10:32 pm
I drafted brandon carter because of his haircut and I think our whole O line should paint their faces like Road Warriors. Seriously though, he’s got the size and if he learns from THOSE STARTING IN FRONT OF HIM, he might turn into an asset.
January 31st, 2011 at 9:08 am
Here’s a quote from the first review I pulled from the file. All preety much the same. This is the April 2010 issue of” Lindy sports- Pro Football- Draft Issue” this is an exact quote from page 147,Tampa Bay Buccaneers – offensive line. And I quote”this was one of the most underachieving units in the NFL. The Bucs invested high draft pucks and made Faine the league’s highest paid center, but were among the worst rushing teams”. One of many reviews to say the same. I don’t know what you guys have been watching the last few years. Could not have been the Bucs. That line has always sucked. Never any better than poor. Why would I want a draft bust to trIn the new, better guys. Oh, and Brandon Carter( pg 46) projected to be drafted in 3-4 round. Graded out to a 6.3. Teammate Louis Vasquez drafted by Chargers in 2009, and started as a rookie. Quotes” strong pass protector”. “As a run Blocker, locks on to his man and doesn’t let go” . Final comment” Should go in top 125″ the guy is a Beast. Every other mag and draft report had him around 3rd round. That draft was soooo deep, he slipped.this year, he’s a second rounder, along with Larsen and Hardman. And yes, I think our line should wear road warrior war paint. As far as not adapting to the Run game or whatever- looks like that’s your Lil secret- his fellow lineman was drafted and started. Brandon was also a team Captain- another leadership plus! I would quote 3 or 4 other sources, but I’m too lazy, look them up yourself. or just watch any tape with last years starting lineup. The line sucked. And has for years. We once had two good lineman( Penn and Sears). Faine is decent, but has regressed. As much as I like them, and I know they both work very hard, but Joseph and Trueblood are bust. We gotta get them outta the starting lineup.
January 31st, 2011 at 9:17 am
Once Faine, Joseph, TrueBlood, and Vincent were out of the lineup, Both Caddy and Blount’s yards per carry doubled. We had half as many sacks, a third as many pressures. Yet you to keep saying those guys a good? For what? What are you basing that on- their cologne? How they were their cleats? It sure isn’t on any fact or stat. Must be on affection, cause their play ( for 3 years straight) sucked. And none of those guys are young. They are Veterans.
January 31st, 2011 at 5:18 pm
Most of us on here complain about the media not giving us any love. I choose not to care what those magazine articles say. Although I do admit that my statements are mostly out of affection/loyalty, I do zero in on what the guards are doing and I’m very impressed at Davin Joseph. That is very interesting about Brandon Carter. Thank you for that. Maybe he’ll start for us but I hope its in due time.