Is Raheem The AntiDungy?
December 14th, 2010
Raheem Morris has talked about building the Bucs the way Father Dungy did back in the day.
The 2010 season was going to be 1997 all over again, Year 2 of the dream, building and developing through youth and patience, firming up the core beliefs, etc. (or “yadayadayada” as Raheem likes to say)
Mark Dominik has referenced the same kind of rhetoric. And both have talked about drafting college captains and men of great character and building a team that would make the community proud.
But then there’s the off-the-field scoreboard, the one that counts arrests, civil suits, assorted funny business and how the Bucs regime reacts.
There’s a big difference between the Raheem era and the Father Dungy era.
Dungy ran a tigther ship than Raheem does. That’s undeniable. Is one better than the other? Is one better for fan support or on-field performance? That’s for fans and Team Glazer to judge for themselves.
Former Bucs guard and WDAE-AM 620 host Ian Beckles says off the field behavior is important and that a head coach shouldn’t get a pass when his team is behaving irresponsibly.
“If we’re going to applaud Tony Dungy for having tight reigns on a young team, then don’t be so quick to let [the Geno Hayes arrest and other incidents] go,” Beckles barked at a caller today on the WDAE airwaves.
The overall take by Beckles is that there’s a problem with Bucs discipline and it falls on the head coach.
Yes, the Bucs roster is disproportionately young and young guys do stupid things. Joe gets that. But Joe also gets that the players are failing their head coach. For some reason, too many don’t respect him enough to behave. Jeff Faine said keeping the young guys on the right track is a constant challenge.
Maybe that’s not Raheem’s fault, but he still gets the blame. This isn’t 1997 all over again.
December 14th, 2010 at 6:34 pm
I wonder who’s about to post on this topic. Okay Thomas and Buc You, have at it…
December 14th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
I’d be interested to see just how many 1st and 2nd year players Father Dungy had.
Also, 13 years ago there wasn’t the social media/24 hour news cycle/reality TV/YouTube-heavy world we live in. In the past, many of these little incidents wouldve been swept under the rug. Now, everybody wants to be on TV, break the news or even be part of the news.
I contend the level of trouble has been the same throughout time but the coverage/scrutiny has increased.
December 14th, 2010 at 7:07 pm
Raheem isn’t a coach. He is one of the boys. And all you Raheemies can yell all you want to, the games will stay blacked out until we get a credible HC.
Justify these thugs actions, Excuse them, or make it into a racial thing. But the Bucs are quickly becoming the thugs of the NFL. Haven’t they always said the players take on the personality of the coach………! And the stands will remain unfilled until Raheem is gone and a Real Coach is hired.
December 14th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
@Tampa 2
Rah has proven to be an excellent delagator of responsiblilty, defensive playcaller, motivator and talent evaluator. He’s improved his game management and talking to the media by leaps and bounds over last year. He’s won nearly 200% more games than he won last year all throughout injuries and developing youth. Correct me if im wrong but that’s my definition of a “coach”.
Rah is not a babysitter. His job is to win games, not to watch the lives of his players every moment. It’s on them to handle themselves off the field in a professional manner. He said in his press conference, not that you’d bother to watch/listen to them, that Geno was fined heavily. That’s all that needs to be done for a guy who’s just had his 1st NFL indiscretion, and who’s indiscretion was a misdemeanor on the same level as public nuisance. This is not college football. Ask yourself this: Would the company you work for dock your pay and send you home for a week for a misdemeanor? I doubt it. I doubt anybody would know about it.
If you can address any of these points, then please feel free.
December 14th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
Or all of Gruden’s former players better shape up. That’s just another reason that there was a much needed regime change. The good news is Raheem has been learning and growing as the season has gone on. Another starter goes down, Rah coach’s them up and the young Bucs continue to win. Only a blind hater could not see how bright the future is.
December 14th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
Excellent points Sensible Buc. Too bad the blind hatred by a select few will never listen to a word you speak. Apparently they think the actions of grown men is the responsibility of the head coach. Or what is even funnier and more ridiculous is that they think his personality influences his players to get into trouble. As if young, rich, professional football players are making mistakes because they are not scared of their coach. Players get arrested every week throughout the NFL, yet very rarely do they get suspended. However, when it happens with Raheem’s players, he has no discipline. It’s also hilarious how people are so quick to judge people guilty without knowing anything about the facts. Last I checked, it’s innocent until proven guilty. Apparently not for everyone.
December 14th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
The Buc players and Raheem are both the ones who need to address these off the field issues. Fine and sit or remove players who have multiple occurrences. And the players need to stop and realize the world they live in now. The 24 hr media circus is just waiting for the next lapse in judgment. So they have something to talk about. My god, they talked about another opposing player getting a Vick autograph after a game for 2 days.
December 14th, 2010 at 8:06 pm
Tampa2 calls these guys thugs? Just about any night in any city the same thing happens to people more important to the local society than some football player. Didn’t some well know dentist just recently get too deep into his cups and kill someone recently? What happened to this Buccaneer was nothing more than a stupid human trick by some young guy. This happens every day. You judgmental pukes make me sick.
December 14th, 2010 at 8:07 pm
I’d be willing to bet that behind closed doors at One Buc Place Raheem is everything to these young kids… And like a good coach/father you pick em up dust em off and tell them never to make the same mistake twice! Once some of these guys/boys have a second offense then we’ll see if he’s going to lay down the law…. RAHEEM MORRIS IS THE COACH OF THE YEAR! Raheem is exactly what the BUCS needed and credit the glazers and mark dominik for saving some money and still bringing in ALL this talent! Next year Freeman makes the pro bowl and we might just be in the mix for another RING! but I bet cha we reach that 10 wins he’s been preachin’ bout this year u’ll see these kids believe in him even if you guys that talk smack on the web don’t (TAMPA2) GO BUCS!
December 14th, 2010 at 8:48 pm
Maybe I am missing something but who is Joe referring to with this comment:
“arrests, civil suits, assorted funny business and how the Bucs regime reacts”
arrests — Talib
civil suits – Talib
assorted funny business — Hayes? Tanard Jackson? (Mike Williams non-event, event?)
It’s a 53 man roster so I know I am missing someone because that’s only 3 guys and they’re all from the prior regime, right? Who else fits into these categories such that the current Bucs “clearly” have a problem?
Joe, is there an article coming about the other guys like McCoy, Freeman, Strougher, Been, Grimm etc.? You know, the guys chosen by this regime? The leaders, the character guys?
December 14th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
I agree with Kirk to a point; but only to a point. Yes most people could do the same thing and it would not be such a big deal with the press. Sorry but if you don’t want the increased scrutiny then don’t be a professional athlete. There are plenty of perks that go with the job, but there are drawbacks as well, increased scrutiny being one of them. If a player doesn’t like he can take his communications or property management degree or whatever other sheepskin he has earned and set out for the private sector where you don’t get noticed.
December 14th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
You don’t have to be a ‘hater’ to realize that these off field problems are building up, and the Head Coach is going to have to LEAD the young players to a better way.
I am by no means a hater…But things WERE different under Coach Dungy. Some like to poke fun at his strait laced ways, but make no mistake…He ran a disciplined, community oriented Bucs team. MOST of the team’s community service tradition and ethic started with him.
Rah could learn a thing or two about being a moral leader to young men by spending some time studying Coach Dungy’s history with the Bucs.
December 14th, 2010 at 9:39 pm
Interesting that people automatically compare Morris to Dungy as opposed to his immediate predecessor Gruden. Why is that? Did we expect Gruden to “learn a thing or two about being a moral leader” from Dungy? Does that sound ridiculous? So what gives? Why is Morris compared to Dungy where Gruden was not?
December 14th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
Excellent article Joe and very astute Tampa2.
Mark Royals on talk radio yesterday spoke along these same lines. He said effectively ” that Rah needed to draw a line between his players and himself.” He said that in the NFL it is incumbent upon the head coach to establish the organizational discipline, rah’s discipline is “come on guys this is not cool.”
Ian Beckels has said many similar things. I call many of you sheep because you do EXACTLY what you accuse me of but in complete and total and undeniable and blind support of rah and the Glazers – I believe this is because of your hatred of Gruden fuels most of your bias.
Noone can possibly agree with the lack of structure or discipline that is in place now. You can try to deflect and say well Gruden wasnt a great disciplinarian also, but that it is irrelevant now. Forget about Gruden.
Rah is WAY too close to these kids, he hangs out with them and that is a recipe for disaster. The disaster we are seeing beginning to play out.
Yes the team is winning more than it is losing, but barely and because of the schedule and incredible luck like was on display last week. I also think that the injuries may be attributable to the soft way he practices and trains this team.
I heard Duemig argue this one year when Gruden was suffering a lot of injuries and thought that it had some validity. Of course, the sheep, including Duemig (sheep for financial reasons), will not entertain the same today, bbut when has consistency mattered to the sheep anyway?
December 14th, 2010 at 10:08 pm
Man, I actually thought for a second there that Thomas wouldn’t chime in with his usual repetitive nonsense. But as usual, here he is. Why don’t you tell us again about how you saw him at the mall with his players, wearing his pants too low. Or how about how you don’t approve of the way he runs his practices. Or maybe you can tell another story of someone who has nothing to do with this team (or any team for that matter) and how they feel about what Raheem should be doing. I just love hearing the same thing over and over again.
December 14th, 2010 at 10:10 pm
Off topic, but Anwar Richardson had a bit in an article that I thought should be brought up. In light of everyone complaining about the Bucs only “beating teams they should beat, and no signature wins”, this is quite interesting.
The biggest knock against Tampa Bay this season has been its schedule.
The Bucs are 8-5, but skeptics point out Tampa Bay has played several teams under .500. However, Tampa Bay is one of the few teams to have success against losing squads.
Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Pittsburgh and the New York Jets are the only NFL teams not to have a loss against a squad below .500.
Anwar S. Richardson, Roy Cummings
So, beating sub-500 teams isn’t all that easy. Notice how the Patriots and Saints are not in that group. Nor are the Ravens or Colts or Bears or Packers or Eagles or Giants. They’ve all lost at least one game to a sub-.500 team.
December 14th, 2010 at 10:12 pm
Thomas: you’re making a lot of largely unfounded assumptions there that you can’t back up:
– “rah’s discipline is “come on guys this is not cool.”” — from what I know, very hefty fines are levied for all these transgressions. Stevens was cut immediately after getting arrested.
– “Noone can possibly agree with the lack of structure or discipline that is in place now.” — I don’t know much about the structure or discipline in the building except what is reported through the media. And unless you work for the Bucs, neither do you. You’re positing that Raheem runs the team in a fundamentally wrong way, without specifying what that way is or why we should disagree with it. Nothing more than vague moral accusations.
– “Rah is WAY too close to these kids, he hangs out with them” — Really? How would you know? I believe he can speak to these players in a familiar way, but that doesn’t mean he’s “WAY too close” or that he “hangs out with them”
– “and that is a recipe for disaster. The disaster we are seeing beginning to play out.” — First, there’s no reason why this would be a recipe for disaster. Being close to people doesn’t mean that you condone everything they do. Second, misdemeanors that don’t cost players any game time are disasters? Give me a break.
– “Yes the team is winning more than it is losing, but barely and because of the schedule and incredible luck like was on display last week.” — Of course, that’s ignoring the bad luck the team had in the weeks before. And ignoring the fact that Raheem is vastly outperforming your pre-season predictions or anyone’s pre-season predictions despite a slew of injuries. Your pathologic need to deny Raheem any credit is getting rather sad.
December 14th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
well thomas its true to say morris is the anti gruden he actually get along with his players,suspend them all like they did ray lewis,chris carter,brett farve for drugs,morris is just ruining the league with these thugs and prima donnas sure wish we could get a real coach like chucky back he will tear this team up and really rebuild this thing the white way!no playoff win since the superbowl !wat a winner he was,he was drunk driving with this team for six years and some of you still say hes the best thing since lombardi,but have no fear shanahan is keeping the seat warm for hin in washington
December 14th, 2010 at 10:52 pm
The way I see it we all put our pants on one legg at a time and thomas wears a skirt and pumps. I try to put myself in the shoe’s of the accused and come to a realistic decision of how it would have played out for me. I’ve been to places in the public and have been denied access it happens in most clubs in New York and Boston where I spend a great deal of time.These particular places select patrons outside the line and limit access to select ethnic groups in bosotn it called a 15 to 1 ratio for every fifteen caucasion patrons allow in one black patron. I’m 40 years old and if this happened 20 years ago and I was drinking I’m sure I would have reacted a with little less understanding and could bes tazed myself.
December 15th, 2010 at 12:00 am
Guys- Why is it Raheem’s fault when his employees get in trouble after work????
Not making excuses but one can’t fault Raheem. I’m willing to bet you goobers -especially Tampa2– would really like to have his boss tell him he can’t go out and get drunk after punching his time card. My boss doesn’t control me after I leave the office- why should it be different in the NFL? Folks- it’s JUST A JOB. When the players leave for the night it’s just like you and I going home.
You could say that he picked players with questionable judgement, but then don’t all companies have that problem? Bigger problem is when the coaches encourage bad behavior ON the field (Rex Ryan, Jeff Fisher– yes, even Tampa2’s favorite Bill Cowher). Or Parcells who openly acknowledged that LT was a cokehead and didn’t do anything about it.
December 15th, 2010 at 12:04 am
..and I’m not a Raheem lover or hater. I think he should be given props for winning 8 games with a ton of rookies and practice squad cast-offs. THAT is coaching, folks. Totally opposite of Shanahan with his high priced roster of stars. BUT…
The truth will come next year when Raheem has to play a 2nd (or 3rd) place schedule and higher expectations. I’ll hold off on my judgement of his skills until we see what happens after next year.
December 15th, 2010 at 12:07 am
Maybe they are not praying enough as a team after games.
December 15th, 2010 at 12:43 am
tampa2…is an idiot all he does is blast our coach, leave the football to people who know tampa2, you sir are a complete moron
December 15th, 2010 at 2:21 am
The thing about discipline is, correct me if im wrong but all teams tend to let situations like this play out in the courts and then with the league before taking any action of their own. Geno is innocent until proven guilty. Don’t be so quick to think Raheem won’t suspend and or fine Geno if and when he is convicted of this crime. And don’t give me Jerramy Stevens! Stevens was never going to be on this team by next year anyways and was just a scumbag of a person. Who’s to say the Bucs weren’t on the verge of releasing him anyway to get their best blocking TE(Gilmore) on the field more and bring up the promising young Purvis? I think the Bucs will be fine. With this many young players there are going to be arrests. There plenty of guys on plenty of teams who have been arrested the past couple of years. Its more of a league wide problem than anything specifically within the Bucs locker room.
December 15th, 2010 at 2:29 am
The fact is Rah just doesnt let these things go. He is not one of these “boys will be boys” players coaches who couldn’t care less what these guys do off the field. From the way he talks its crystal clear that integrity means a lot to him. I think that he lectures these guys plenty and lets them know just how unacceptable things are when they screw up. Its just that with so many young guys I think he also tries to cut them just a little slack and keep the mood in the locker room positive. You guys need to stop assuming that just becuase Geno wasn’t immediately suspended that Raheem is just shrugging this off. Because he is so close with the players they really identify with him and look up to him and I think they probably honestly feel contrite when they let Raheem down.
December 15th, 2010 at 2:30 am
Ill take a great teacher over a great disciplinarian with a team this young any day.
December 15th, 2010 at 2:59 am
I don’t think Thomas even takes himself seriously these days lololol.
December 15th, 2010 at 8:52 am
🙂
Look at what the JBF fan club has turned into.
LMAO!
Wait for it… “I just want to apologize for the Tampa Police Department’s appearant racism against our Buccaneers. Blame it on the bar for serving alkie-hall, blame it on the PD for profiling, blame it on the cab driver looking for a payday, blame it on Gruden… but don’t put the blaaaaammmmeeee on Raaaaaaaaah. You gotta blame it on something, but don’t put the blaaaaammmme on Raaaaaaaah!
After all, he’s the coach of the year.”
Wonder if all these off-the-field issues will rob him of the COY?
December 15th, 2010 at 9:25 am
BUC YOU,your on to somthing.sit should roll uphill,lets not stop at morris,glazers hired him ,the panthers organization should be in prison for rae carruth,the jets should be in jail for brett,and of course the great bil cowler should be locked up because he was there when ben started taking panties but swept it under the rug,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Man get over it chris carter was worse than any of these guys,ray lewis was worse they turned out okay,why cant you see it like when brett farve was hooked on pain pills eugene robinson with the prostitute at the superbowl,michael pittman trying to run over his wife,instead you bit..about a kid prostesting about being kicked out of a club,peacefully prostesting,not drunk,williams driving to late,stevens got what he deserved talib got what he deserved,what would you have done cut all four?
December 15th, 2010 at 9:42 am
And the vicious STDs of JBF strike yet again! The Herpes (Buc You), Clamidia (Thomas) and Genital Warts (Tamap2) of JoeBucsFan.com will only be cured by one antibiotic… Rah-cillin!
Keep winning with all the obstacles Rah. Hurt players, young players, constantly disrespected players, players not supported by large masses of your home crowd… just keep doing what your doing. There are many fans who see what you have accomplished.
Get to 10 and COTY and that antibiotic will feel real good on this site (for a few weeks atleast).
December 15th, 2010 at 9:52 am
Please! We aren’t the only ones. Check out this out 2009-2010 police arrests(2007-2008, 2008-2009 page links at bottom of link). Those that want to point fingers, feel free to do your own math on what team has the most from just those 4 years:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/police-blotter/
December 15th, 2010 at 10:06 am
Talib’s issue was last year wasn’t it? He was suspended and fined. He has not been in trouble since. Stevens was cut, Williams should have received a parking ticket and sent home, Flip was not resigned after his off season issues, Jackson has been suspended by the league for one year, and Geno is on his first offense pending league and state investigations. No one is giving excuses, but if you look around the league this is not exclusive to the Bucs.
Morris could save 100 kids from a burning orphanage and Tampa 2, Thomas, and Bucs You would accuse him of starting the fire to begin with.
December 15th, 2010 at 10:14 am
Nick over at Bucstop has a great piece on this…you guys should check it out.
December 15th, 2010 at 11:33 am
OAR…great list. I posted one for 2010 the other day, but no one cares. Everyone has already made up their mind on this issue, at least that is how it seems. Notice the Cowher years racked up plenty of points on their lists. Also, Gruden was racking them up as well. Even the great Billechick has arrests on his team. Time to move on to football again.