Young Talent Not Being Developed
October 19th, 2010
Joe is sure he is not alone. Since we all have so much respect for Steve White’s work, Joe is confident his readers have noticed White’s frustration with how rookie defensive tackles Gerald McCoy and Brian Price are being used.
Add Joe’s good friend Justin Pawlowski of WDAE-AM 620 to the list. Pawlowski, “The Commissioner,” and host of the popular “Blitz” on Saturday afternoons, isn’t holding back. He believes the Bucs coaching staff is not developing the rookies well at all, so Pawlowski wrote on his blog on the station’s website.
I learned that the coaching staff is not developing the young talent on the team. Over time, young players are supposed to get better. Other than Freeman, who I still think has a long way to go, the young players on the Bucs are not getting better. From Quincy Black to Gerald McCoy to Arrelious Benn to Roy Miller, unless these players get better, the Bucs will not succeed. Typically, teams have veterans to help these young players progress, but the Bucs do not have those veterans, so that puts more pressure on the coaches to develop these players. Around draft time I said that it didn’t matter who the Bucs drafted if they don’t develop them properly. So far, that is holding true.
This is a frightening thought to Joe that all of these solid draft choices won’t get any better. Surely this can’t be the case? If it is, well, it makes Joe very chagrin.
October 19th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
-ed.
October 19th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
Last week they were been developed now all of the sudden they’re not give me a break!! Just typical Bucs fan/insider no wonder why we suck so bad as a franchise.
October 19th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
“I learned that the coaching staff is not developing the young talent on the team.” – Justin Pawloswksi
Perfect time to mention a source….
October 19th, 2010 at 10:02 pm
Good students (players) learn best from themselves, football isn’t calculus.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
wish this was like facebook cause I would have hit I like agree 100 espically on the D line gosh cna that guy coach pee wee kids
October 19th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
I have been concerned about things like this because I see some of the same issues happening and this is year in and out for the DL. The OL has regresses since Muir left and I can understand because some of these guys were drafted for a different system but I am concerned that the DL and LB coaches are just not getting the job done. I just want some accountability like Bates had to take after the Saints whipped us at home last year. Morris has been quiet on that front. They are young but we do need some vets to balance this roster.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
Well Steve White is such an authority!!!! Yeah right. Let’s go back and remember when Sapp, brroks and Lynch got here. It was awful, I used to get in the games for free after the 2nd Qt. Please be patient they will get better. One thing though don’t move McCoy around anymore. That will affect his game.
October 19th, 2010 at 10:33 pm
Justin Palowski another has been!!! It’s really easy to critize specially from the booth!!!!!
October 19th, 2010 at 10:43 pm
Don’t worry everyone. Yeah the d-line isn’t playing well, but the cavalry is coming over the hill. In the form of…. Alex Magee, another world beater.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Good summary of what a lot of us have been saying for months.
Not that stats are everything, but the bucs are so similar across the board to last year in their offensive and defensive rankings it is scary.
Now, to throw a positive spin on this, the new regime does have to be commended for getting Josh Freeman who really does look like a guy you can build a good team around. Kudos are richly deserved for that.
Whether Mr. Rah and company are the best folks to develop that team and get Josh to realize his full potential is highly questionable, IMO.
Defensively it just aint working. Particularly vexing given Rahs defensive background.
Probably a bit early to jump anybody about Benn. But if by years end he has contributed nuttin that is not a good sign.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Here is a conspiracy theory for everyone. Could it be possible that the experimenting with McCoy at DE is a prelude to a permanent conversion to defensive end? Could it end up that the Bucs see B. Price as the better undertackle and so could move McCoy over so as to have both guys on the field. I mean Price is naturally a 3 tech. not a nose, so maybe they drafted two 3 tech. with the intention of seeing who was better rather than assuming Price was destined to be an NT. Maybe the Bucs see things that make them think McCoy will make a better DE. Just a crackpot theory but it makes for interesting conversation.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:18 pm
it’s still only been five games for Benn, McCoy and Price and 3 games for Grimm. “they’re not being developed” doesn’t make any sense. the way to compare that would be the middle and end of this year vs the beginning of this year, and next year to this year. not game 1 to game 5… how can you suddenly expect things to happen that fast?
it takes awhile
October 19th, 2010 at 11:36 pm
Did some research on Magee and read that he played at Defensive tackle in college also. At 6′ 3″ 300 lbs. could the Bucs be hoping he can be the big body they need at nose tackle? It’s all coming together now. Alex Magee at nose tackle, Brian Price at undertackle and Gerald McCoy at defensive end. Remember you heard it hear first!
October 19th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
Well five games is certainly enough time to evaluate the draft picks from this year.
Whatever Justin I like you on the radio but this is hogwash. You can’t judge how young players are being developed after five games.
October 19th, 2010 at 11:46 pm
It’s hillarious how fans and talking heads are so quick to do a 180 on a team after and win or loss. All these idiots talking about Freeman for MVP and playoffs last week, are the same morons that are screaming the sky is falling this week.
We’ve played 5 games. OH NOES! Our rookies aren’t developed! Gimme a break.
The only people buying this crap are the ones that bought into the hype and are now disappionted that we aren’t really a play off team. Nothing changed because we beat some bad teams and started 3-1. We are still the 2nd youngest team in the league, we are still rebuilding, we are still inexperienced, we are still lacking solid players at several positions, we are still an exciting young team that will do some amazing things this year and also have some huge losses to good teams, we are still going to win 7 or 8 games.
If we beat the Rams 42-0 next week….nothing changes. We are still the same team in the same situation. It’s gonna be an up and down year with lots of highs and lows. It’s all part of rebuilding. Get excited over the bright spots and enjoy the ride, or get off, but please stop with the knee jerk reactions every single week. It’s juvenile.
October 20th, 2010 at 12:09 am
This is incredibly stupid. We’re five games into the season. We’re 3-2. We have a winning record. Freeman has clearly developed. He’s improved tremendously from last year. Mike Williams is clearly developing. Cody Grimm? He’s nominated for rookie of the week, and last week he had a pick six. E.J. Biggers? Yeah, the seventh round corner from 2009 has taken over as the third CB…he’s played VERY well. There are reasons why rookies are rarely named all-pro’s. They are rookies! To see if the coaching staff is truly developing ALL of these rookies will probably not be determined until the end of 2011 (at the least). You can’t say whether or not rookies are being developed properly in week five….especially when we have a winning record.
October 20th, 2010 at 12:52 am
I can’t wait til we win another game (should be next weekend) and all these negative people crawl back in their holes. We win, they disappear. We lose, and they’re all over the place screaming about how they’ve been right all along. Where are you all when we win? I’m here after a loss, I’ll admit there are many things that need corrected on this young team still, and positions they need to address with new players still. Where is all the criticism and yelling the “coach sucks”, “players suck” when we’re winning?
October 20th, 2010 at 1:35 am
Josh has been sucking the entire season, yeah he’s making some nice plays but he makes so many footworks mistakes and he always scrambles outside the pocket and throws across his body.
October 20th, 2010 at 2:01 am
@AllMaddenMonkey,
I guess we’ll just call you the “Footwork King”. You are so right, why does he throw across his body so much? It probably has nothing to do with that 300 pound lineman pursuing him. Man, your spot on analysis is the reason we have been losing. Please head straight to One Buc Place and grab an application, because it is obvious that your football knowledge is off the charts, especially when it pertains to NFL Quarterbacks and their footwork. Maybe you could bring your PS3 with you and hook it up in the film room, then just show Freeman how to play quarterback straight from Madden 2010! Damn, why didn’t we think of this earlier?
October 20th, 2010 at 5:35 am
God! This this town please get ONE sports radio host who isn’t a total fool!
October 20th, 2010 at 5:43 am
The post beneath this one is SuperBowl winning coach Tony Dungy. He’s saying how he likes the way the team is developing. Next post, radio head waving his arms in the air” the sky is falling”. Same guy two weeks ago thought this might be a playoff team! IQ’s can’t really be this low, can they? Every week is an entirely different opinion, and no one remembers the week before? Really?? They’ve proven even a goldfish can remember up to a week!
October 20th, 2010 at 8:07 am
I don’t think the Commish is talking about just this years draft. Black, Hayes, Miller, Stroughter, Hayward, etc. arent rookies.
One could also argue that this coaching staff isn’t very good at getting the most out of veterans either – take a look at the O-line play, Ward, Styles White, ………………..
As for this years draft , it was billed as the greatest class of all time, particularly at DT. Our own GM and HC stated they expected McCoy and Price to have an immediate impact. The “disruptive forces” would improve the whole defense.
Not happening. Commish is right.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:13 am
@Eric
You say that our defensive woes are vexing given Morris’s defensive background. What’s vexing about it? What is Morris’s defensive background? Ass’t DB coach, then DB coach? While he took credit for the “turnaround” last year, all he did was tell the defense to play the D the Kiffin had trained them to play, after letting them get smashed every week for 10 weeks trying to learn Bates defense!
@bambam
I think that there are a lot of us on here that have been very consistent in our beliefs. We do not waver from week to week like some do. Raheem the Dream may be a savior to one or two of you, but he is still an amateur playing at being head coach. This year proves that fact. There are no more Bates, Grudens, or Allens to blame. And he has some very good young talent on the team. But their lack of development & training is becoming evident, even in wins! And Raheem’s lack of training at DC, much less HC, is glaring!
October 20th, 2010 at 8:15 am
I guess Cody Grimm 7th rd(nominated for rookie of the week) Michael Sprlock(undrafted), Sammie Straughter 7th rd, Mike Williams 4th rd(nominated for rookie of the week twice), Josh Freeman all came to the team NFL ready and the coaches had nothing to do with the way they are playing and progressing this year.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:21 am
“Our own GM and HC stated they expected McCoy and Price to have an immediate impact.”
I’d like to see the quote where he said that.
I know he said they would start from day one but everything I read before the season everyone kept saying that it was going to take time for these young guys to come around. Knowing that the best way to get them up to speed was for them to play right away but i dont recall anyone from the Bucs saying that it was going to be immediate. D-linemen are notoriously slow starters. Suh being the exception most d-linemen don’t really come on until their second year in the league. Just take a look at Sapps Rookie year stats.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:25 am
You know all this “u can’t improve” with young players is hogwash.
In 1996, the first year of Father Dungy, with a lots of young players, he improved the Bucs defense from 27th the year before to 11th. In his second year they were third in the league.
Rahs defense is still wallowing down where they were last year…………..and dead last vs. the run and in sacks.
I understand there is only one Tony, but shouldn’t we be seeing SOME improvement defensively and not regression?
October 20th, 2010 at 8:35 am
Some pretty stupd posts here, ranging from Amar who said, ‘football isn’t calculus’ implying no coaching is necessary, to the usual Kool-Aid crap from Captain Tina ‘talking about goldfish’
What Justin is talking about is that we need a D-line coach & LB coach to get the most out of these guys. One of the big reasons you’re seeing some improvement with Josh Freeman is the effects of Alex Van Pelt. Now I’m not saying Van Pelt is great but having someone spend 1-1 time with young Freeman is a 100% improvement over last year when Olson didn’t have time to break-down film, plan a game AND coach Freeman. Something had to give.
Amar – yes football is a simple game and these players in the NFL have GOBS of talent, otherwise they wouldn’t be there. However most of that talent is RAW ability and that will only get a player up to average. It’s when you take that RAW TALENT and coach them in the little things, like how to get off a block, getting the timing down on a delay blitz, recognizing that the O-line is going to be pass blocking vs. coming downfield – THOSE little things help the players go from average to good.
Coaching a defensive scheme is about match-ups, winning that battle. When the offense can get their hot receiver matched up with Barrett Ruud guess who wins?
This isn’t pee wee football where everyone just does their own thing. Playing gap responsibility is tough, physically and mentally. Without good coaching these young men will not develop and become all they can be.
A great example of good coaching was the pick by Cody Grimm in the Cincy game. He recognized a formation and baited the QB into tossing to the ‘open man’ only to jump the route and score a pick 6 INT.
Wisen up people, put down the Kool-Aid and pay attention to posters like Mr. White and Justin.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:37 am
“Wisen up people, put down the Kool-Aid and pay attention to posters like Mr. White and Justin.”
Derf I stopped listening to anything Justin says when I heard him predict we would only win six games the year we won the Super Bowl.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:38 am
Capt Tina,
Father Dungy was referring to the way the team was headed – young men building together as a unit rather than free agents, veterans and people brought into the organization that were finished/burned out in other organizations.
Dungy wasn’t referring to their coaching but the PRINCIPLES of team chemistry and how to rebuild.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:38 am
was watching NFl network and damn Suh s stats 19 tackles 4 sacks int compared to mccoy 8 tackles wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 20th, 2010 at 8:43 am
“The natural three-technique fit was so important to this organization,” said Buccaneers general manager Mark Dominik. “He’s got to be able to hit the ground running and be a productive player for this team.”
Buccaneers head coach Raheem Morris said that McCoy, and not Ndamukong Suh, is the player that Tampa Bay wanted most to take with the third overall pick in the 2010 draft.
“This is exactly who we wanted, this is exactly who we went out there to get, and we got him,” Morris said.
“He’s a perfect fit for what we do. He’s going to come here and just change lingo and be able to fit right into our system, in what we want to do and how we want to do it.”
There ya go Jdouble, a couple of quotes from the masterminds concerning McCoy.
October 20th, 2010 at 9:20 am
Jdouble,
How do I not make this too personal or aim it at you but to be honest your outlook may be a little too nonchalant. I have been a Bucs fan since the early 80’s and I have loved them since, so enduring is not the question. The question is productivity and return on investment because at this point we are not getting any thing back from the coaching staff. I get it and he’s not considered a long term shoe in for the job so he will not get elite coaches under him but there is no accountability for this porous defense that looks like a varsity defense compared to the rest of the league. I am not one of those fans that expect rookies to dominate but I expect flashes but I am not seeing anything from McCoy, Benn, or Price. Outside of Josh Freeman and Mike Williams no one has improved in production. You are quick to chastise the fans and your peers but you rarely identify the leadership of this organization. For example, McGee for an undisclosed pick but Kampman was dangling out there…Hmmm
October 20th, 2010 at 9:43 am
gitarlvr Says: makes sense, McCoy probably becomes a standout at end.
October 20th, 2010 at 10:24 am
Eric…I didn’t ask for any quotes from you.
October 20th, 2010 at 10:25 am
I have to agree with pretty much everyone…
Five games does not tell the whole story. As for last years performance we all know why that happened. Lets wait until the end of the season before we start asking for heads.
October 20th, 2010 at 10:37 am
I have never heard or read White say the talent is not being developed. he says to leave McCoy in one spot, and to stop using Black as a rusher. Last week the talking heads were talking about what a great job the young talent is doing in tampa. They lose to the SAINTS, and all of the sudden the players are not improving. Anyone who watched Benn in Preseason knows he is playing better now. Black is better than last year. Williams looks good, and Freeman is vastly improved. 5 games is not enough for this conversation, a year and 5 games is not enough for every position. Last years players look better, and this years players are moving along at expected rates. Get over it. I do not care what the stats say Eric, The Bucs would have lost the three games they won last year at this time. More than likely anyway. The stats that matter are the Ws. The team is not being penalised as much either, and that is a huge improvement.
Like someone said above, I hope the Bucs win this weekend so you guys hide again for a week, or until the next loss.
October 20th, 2010 at 11:28 am
McBuc I hope the Bucs win this weekend too – but to deny the facts that the defense is beginning to resemble the Jim Bates level of productivity is disheartening.
As a long-time write who has never been enamoured with Raheem I’m saying get these kids (rookies) some help – that’s all. I’m NOT calling for anyone’s head.
October 20th, 2010 at 11:30 am
Look lets take Sanchez as an example. In his rookie season he was terrible (typical rookie mistakes). This year – he is doing light years better.
Josh Freeman is looking better than he did last year as well but the difference between the two is very striking.
October 20th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
Derf…Maybe so, but the difference is the other players around Sanchez, and I agree, let’s get them some help. The Jets and the Bucs are in different points of the cycle at this point. How would Sanchez play on the Bucs?I am just saying that not enough time has passed to say that the young talent is not being developed. We are close to the same page. They also beat a pretty good Cincy team, and got beat by two very good teams. This week will tell us a little more, the Rams and the Bucs are around the same place. They are ok teams
October 20th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
That will lose some and surpise some others.
October 20th, 2010 at 6:43 pm
These draftees and Rah are great! Yes I am back from a work-related hiatus.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:12 pm
If Suh was playing on the Bucs’ D line instead of McCoy, his production would probably be the same. One man is not a D line. You have to look at the man on either side of the man, and the Coach calling the shots. I can surely see some coaching tweaks needed but I think these players will be more than capable of doing the job. I wish it was right now, but unfortunately it’s not.
October 20th, 2010 at 8:41 pm
Don’t worry BigMac,
When we get a real coach in here I am sure that a lot of these young talented kids will learn their positions. We just have to weather the storm until that coach gets here.
October 21st, 2010 at 2:16 am
Dmoney great call out to Justin is real easy to coach from the radio station. Tampa 2 stop hating on Raheem cause he’s going to keep his job. They already matched last years win total so start drinking the Kool aid.