Tony Dungy A Hall Of Famer?
July 8th, 2010
When Joe thinks of former Bucs headed to Canton, Joe always first thinks of Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp and John Lynch. And then Joe is always up for debating the chances of Ronde Barber and Mike Alstott.
But Joe never thinks of Tony Dungy when it comes to the Bucs-to-the-Hall discussion.
Perhaps Joe should. It’s an interesting debate.
Pat “Vacation Man” Yasinskas, NFC South scribe for BSPN.com, considered potential Hall of Famers from NFC South teams. And he picked Dungy as the guy for the Bucs.
Case for enshrinement: The knock on Dungy in Tampa was that he couldn’t win the big one and the Bucs had to turn to Jon Gruden to get them their Super Bowl victory. But Dungy was largely responsible for building that team and changing the entire football climate in Tampa Bay. Building around Derrick Brooks, Warren Sapp and John Lynch, Dungy took the defensive philosophy he learned in Pittsburgh and built the famed “Tampa 2’’ defense, which became a phenomenon around the league. He also built a lengthy coaching tree with Herm Edwards, Jim Caldwell, Lovie Smith, Rod Marinelli and Mike Tomlin going on to become head coaches.
Case against enshrinement: With all of the defensive talent he had in Tampa Bay and Peyton Manning in Indianapolis, Dungy only won one Super Bowl title.
First, Joe’s not sure why Vacation Man thinks Dungy’s “head coaching tree” would factor into getting him into the Hall of Fame.
That aside, Dungy had a sick regular season winning percentage, bringing home a victory in two-thirds of his games. But he has a losing record in the playoffs and only one Super Bowl ring, despite extraordinary talent with the Bucs and Colts.
Tom Flores sticks out in Joe’s mind as a standout coach that didn’t make the Hall. He’s got two Super Bowl rings and a winning record in the regular season and postseason (8-3) with Oakland, but he tanked in Seattle. Flores also was a standout player, whereas Dungy wasn’t, if that even makes a difference.
Joe has trouble judging a coach beyond wins and losses and rings (see Don Coryell). Dungy, of course, is off the charts with his intangibles, from great guy extraordinaire to crafting the Tampa 2.
Joe thinks Dungy would be a shoe-in with one more ring. Time will tell.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:33 am
Dungy in the hall of fame?? Gruden in the hall of Fame?? Well , if they are candidates, I have one more! ME!! Ta da!! By attending every game, including the Super Bowl, and being the loudest supporter if said Buccaneers, my role as “the Twelveth Man” was crucial to the Bucs winning the Superbowl. I was in the lineup every week, and played thru some horriffic injuries down the strech( horse throat, bleacher butt, indigestion). I Also had to sit IN THE STANDS in Philly- Not many Players would have the testicular fortitude to do THAT! Especially wearing Buc Colors! Oh, and what about the money!! I ravenously devoured Hot Dogs, Burgers, and Nachoes! That, along with Kegs if Beer, to insure the team had enough money to pay key players!! I single handedly spent enough money ta pay the kicker and a couple of special teamers- now that’s taking one fer the team, Gipper style!! And don’t even get me started on how many opposing fans I intimidated into silence!! Oh, yeah, when you look at my Stats, I think I’m a shoe in!! If Dungy and Gruden are in-Why not??
July 8th, 2010 at 8:52 am
He won a Super Bowl.
He won a ton of games.
He deserves to be a Hall of Famer with that winning percentage.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:58 am
CapTim, I see you got one of your early morning buzzes again.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:12 am
And I think Gruden will be in there too when he gets back into coaching and has more winning seasons. Oakland, Tampa Bay, and Carolina? That would be too funny.
So while there is a HIGH likelyhood that Gruden will win again and be in the playoffs again…. there is a LOW probability that Raheem will ever make it.
Basically, you Gruden haters are praying that Gruden fails with his next team… WISHING he does bad just to prove your silly position in why you chased him away.
But deep down, you are scared that he will come back onthe scene and win again only to make guys like you look so foolish for wasting years bashing Jon Gruden.
Raheem has a LONG, LONG way to go to even come close to Gruden or Dungy.
You are PAYING for, no Subsidizing this Glazer experiment through your ticket purchases. Instead of paying for a product that is worth while. At least if the Glazer boys TRIED and got a REAL coach, rather than force the fans to suffer through this Raheem experiment, then buying tickets would be easier to swallow.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:24 am
The fact that Dungy basically coached two pro bowl teams; (one defensive and one offensive) you would think that he should have had multiple rings for his efforts. I was so frustrated with the ’99 playoff loss to the Rams that I was ready to give up on Dungy. The man was loyal to a fault! Instead of bringing in an established offensive coordinator he tried to promote from within. When any Defense gives up less than 14 pts. a game for such a long period of time; there should at least be a Super Bowl appearance to show for it. Two touchdowns would have won the NFC Championship game that year and probably would have changed the Buccaneers history.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:31 am
Oar, lol, I gotta quit these mimosas! But it was a good point though, right! Lol
July 8th, 2010 at 9:40 am
CaptTim, No doubt. Funny stuff, too!
July 8th, 2010 at 9:44 am
BucnJim, You are right we should have had multiple rings!
And what’s sad, is I think there were other years the defense(especially the line) was better just prior to the SuperBowl run year.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:46 am
Regarding why his coaching tree matters …
It reminds of something Ralph Nader (of all people) once said, “the function of leadership is to produce more leaders, not more followers”.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:49 am
Id say Dungy, and Monte Kiffin are Hall of Famers. They brought that innovative Tampa II into the league.
Not Chucky at this point. I suspect he will qualify in the future.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:52 am
Hey didn’t Gruden have two teams in the same SuperBowl? All the Gruden haters said, we were lucky to have played the Oakland Raiders in that SuperBowl, cause we knew all their plays.(ie: hear Lynch’s comments during game) Why? Cause they were Gruden’s and Callahan didn’t change a thing.
BTW I think we would have beat any of the other AFC playoff teams that year; Titans, Jets, Colts, Steelers, or Browns.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:53 am
Eric, I agree Dungy and Kiffin did change the game and how teams prepared for the Tampa-2 defenses.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:01 am
You have my vote Capt Tim,souunds like HOF dedication.
RahDom-Why do you assume we are Gruden haters just because we are willing to give Raheem a chance?I like Gruden and hope he succeeds wherever he goes.Except when he plays the Bucs.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:25 am
Pat, again…what are you basing the probability of Gruden having success and Morris failing? Again, please findm one head coach in the history of Super Bowls that won two with two different teams. You also have no way of knowing how Morris turns out. I like Gruden and Dungy. I like some of the things I have seen from Morris. I hope he surprises you, Eric, and RAHDOM. If Gruden returns to coaching, will you go follow the team he gets hired by, so we can stop hearing you rave about him?
July 8th, 2010 at 10:37 am
Unfortunately, me raving about Chucky is a permanent fixture……………:)
However, I like to think I am really merely setting the record straight.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:56 am
While I am still pissed at Kiffin for the 2008 season, He should be recognized as the main innovator for the tampa 2 defense along with Dungy. Dungy had the most potent offense in the NFL with Manning & Co., yet he only won one Superbowl. And he had the most potent defense here in Tampa, with Sapp, Brooks, Lynch, etc., and couldn’t get it done. That is why Malcom Glazer fired Dungy. You can’t help but like Dungy. But Dungy does not deserve the HOF.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:10 am
I’ve never thought of Dungy as a Hall of Famer…not sure why exactly.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:10 am
Sorry Pat, that was RAHDOM that keeps posting his high probabilty theory. I am still waiting to see what he is basing it off of.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Love Dungy but HOF….
NO.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:42 am
Sad ta think, that after two years, there are guys still standing around staring lovingly at their Gruden posters! You can see why Michael Pittman was so pissed! These “guys” just won’t stop with their man crushes!! They know Grudens married, but they still continue to lust for the Guy! I feel really bad for him! It’s like “The Gruden Stalker Club”!
July 8th, 2010 at 11:55 am
CaptTim, And what do you guys call your Raheem crushes? Just wondering?
July 8th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
It’s not that we love Gruden…. it’s we won’t let clowns like you re-write history and destroy everything Gruden did good for this team. Dungy won, didn’t win anything meaningful in Tampa except that one division title, but he won. I like Dungy. Gruden won with Tampa too. Won a Super Bowl, 3 Division titles and a NFC championship. I like that part of Tamap’s history as well!
I’ll be damned if I’m gonna let some flaming liberal re-write the Tamap Bay Buccaneer’s history of their past successes.
Raheem is an interim replacement at best, and yet you blinly follow him as if he was some great aquistion. Soon he’ll be gone and we will have a real coach.
July 8th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
RAHDOM…If you are talking to me, you should step off and read things that I have written. I am a huge fan of Gruden, and in no way suggest that sucked or whatever. I just want to know why he has a high probabilty of success and Morris has a high probability of failure. I am just not clear on how you have come up with this. You still have not named a coach that won a SB with two seperate teams either. I was not happy qwhen they fired gruden, but it is what it is and we have to move on. You may be right and Morris may be gone after next year; however, you may be wrong as well and Morrtis develops into a great coach. Also, I do not understand why no matter what the subject of the article is, you bring it back to the same old Morris sucks gruden is great hype. Gruden is a great coach, but he is no longer here. I prefer to support the team to the best of my ability, you choose to bach the team every chance you get.
You have sucked me into your void though, so this will be my last post on the subject. I have enjoyed the conversation, but it is moot.
July 8th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
I do know one thing. Gruden accomplished something no other head coach has done. He became so unpopular with his own players, that they layed down on him for 5 games to get him fired. First in NFL history, and you read it here first!
July 8th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Kinda explains that “mass exodus” of players that occurred shortly there after, hmmm
July 8th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
CaptTim, There you go with the “laying down” theory again. Last I checked injuries and Kiffin announcing his departure was the reason. You think they laid down for Gruden, then why would they release them for that? He was going to be fired, right? They would have had a new head coach. I guess they took the Clayton’s “Gruden’s a mean head coach” routine with them too? BTW turned out real well for Clayton didn’t it? What crock!
“Kinda explains that “mass exodus” of players that occurred shortly there after, hmmm” So what are you saying is, since they laid down for Gruden(who gets fired) those “mass exodus” players will probablly give up on their new hope Raheem, too? Is that why the released the veterans? Gee and I thought it had to do with youth movement and re-building.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Nah, canned ’em for “conspiracy”. Once Kiffin announced he was leaving, and wasn’t gonna be held accountable for the team, The love that Simeon Rice talked about shown thru!
July 8th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
“gee, I thought it had to do with the youth movement”. Nope! That was a pretty big lay off, don’t ya think?
July 8th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
CaptTim, Are you in a whirlpool? Keep on going round-and-round there big fella. Don’t spill any “pom pom Dom”, or it might turn into a hot tub time machine and take you back to better times!
July 8th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
The only place I’m spilling the “pom pom doms” is down the ole hatch! And don’t need the time machine- these are great times! And I’m excited to see how are Bucs look this year! Can’t wait! Now tell me Oar, you’ve seen teams during Youth movements before, right? They cut a bunch of older players, do the young players behind them can”Step up”,right? What was different about our youth move? We cut players( WR,Qb,etc) that we DIDN’T have replacements for! Why? And no other team touched the ones we cut! Why? Just think about what I said. I can’t prove it, cause I’m not spilling any names, but just think about. Most former players never say anything about a past coach, but several Ex-Bucs trashed Gruden. He wasn’t popular with the players at all. The player revolt may of got him fired, but the Players suffered also
July 8th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
CaptTim, The team your excited about is full of drafts from the last regime. Those players especially on defense would be even more fun/exciting to watch had they not wasted an entire off-season and more than half the regular season last year with the Bates fiasco. They lost prime development time with that crap. They have been(offseason) and will be getting that development time this season. I don’t have faith in the drafts being any better, cause that part of the Bucs has been the same since Dungy regime. Its not like they weren’t trying to fill those needs. Kiffin was allowed to get the same amount of high draft picks on defense that Gruden got on offense. He got 2 2nd rnd picks and 2 1st rnd picks out of the 4 they had then. Adams(1s rnd) and Talib(1st) with Ruud(2nd) and Sabby(2nd) as the other high picks. BTW don’t even tell me Kiffin didn’t have a say or didn’t want those players, cause I’m sure Gruden wanted offensive players(ie: Calvin Johnson, etc.).
Great Times???? Now, I know your buzzed! Worse presidency ever, Oil spill, bad economy, Big brother growing out of control, crappy favorite team last year, the list goes on.
July 8th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
Yes I do believe Dungy belongs in the Hall of Fame. He won a lot of games and he won 1 Super Bowl. He does deserve a lot of credit for changing the losing culture in TB as Pat said. 4 head coaches before him could not do that for some reason. A major negative for Dungy was the 6 1 and dones in the playoffs. That shouldn’t have happened with some of those teams (mainly in Indy).
I will also admit that he was a tad unlucky in TB. The ’99 team should have played in the Super Bowl if not for the bad call. The ’00 team should have had a first round bye and the #2 seed if not for a miss by the short spastic kicker. Those are two big what ifs that changed the whole complexion of his career and the history of the Bucs. But he did not get it done here and he needed to go. Just like Jon Gruden needed to go as well.
I like to compare Dungy with John Madden as coach. They both had many great teams, but they only have 1 Super Bowl on their resume. Since Madden is in the Hall, Dungy deserves the honor as well. I personally think he is a shoo in to get in. He will be joined by Sapp, Brooks and Lynch. Barber is a tough call, but I think he will eventually get in. It won’t surprise me if he doesn’t though since one of my personal favorites Lester Hayes is not in. I like Mike Alstott. He was a great player for the Bucs. I don’t think he has a chance in hell to get in.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:04 pm
LOL@ Grudenites. As always, you bunch never cease to amuse me. RahDom, Eric and Oar, you guys do your best to expand Gruden’s resume all the time.
1 NFC Championship and 1 Superbowl? As if you could win SB without winning the game prior to it. It is as moronic as saying Italy won the 2006 soccer world cup and its semi final.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:23 pm
Oar, Whaaa? No, the players I’m excited about are Freeman,Benn, Williams,Price,Lewis,Miller,Moore ,Dotson,and of course GMC!! And wow! Things sound tough I your world! Mine is pretty good! Economy is making an upturn, looks like I’m gonna be real busy next year, staying busy now.I think the worst presidency ever just left office. He, along with senate and house, had the US monetary 24 hours away from being Worthless. I lost a Ton! But, it’s definately turned for the Better. Think the Bucs are gonna be a pleasant surprise! I’m kinda “Big Brother”, lol, so I won’t comment on that! It’s almost football season! Mugs and Hooters have cold beer and Hot wings. The beach at sunset is as close ta heaven as you’ll get here on earth, the gulf still offers beautiful sailing. In his middle age( ugh) the Capt still finds himself in the company of young, Bikini clad women! And most importantly, my assistant has found me a new morning Drink! Called a Sunrise, it’ll get me off the Mimosas! . . . No good spin on that Damn Oil Slick!! Killed my favorite oyster bed! Bastards!
July 8th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
Gonna have ta start hanging out with me, Oar, seem to bright ta be that bummed out! Remember, every day you get ta spend ABOVE ground is a good day:)
July 8th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
I’d vote for Dungy. He won his Superbowl. The refs screwed him out of the NFC Championship in 99′ or he might have won that year with the Bucs. But the Deal is that Dungy made everyone around him better. He has one of the finest Coaching trees around. So I say “Hell Yea!” for Tony.
July 9th, 2010 at 12:29 am
Capt.Tim, if things are so good for you, you MUST work for the federal government. Or, maybe you’re in oil cleanup? Those are the only people making money right now.
July 9th, 2010 at 12:31 am
…or on welfare.
July 9th, 2010 at 8:53 am
CaptTim, Well good for you! Most of us aren’t as lucky, I guess? Don’t worry, I’m not “that bummed out”. I just don’t think these are “great times”, to say the least.
July 9th, 2010 at 8:57 am
Stick to Football Capt. Tim. Politics isn’t your strong suit.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:01 am
Jonny, Expand his resume? Real stats and facts don’t count? Look up his resume on any football site(and see if all of them don’t give that credit to him. So in your world, you would be taking away all coaches’s conference championship wins that make it to the superbowl, that win the superbowl???? Hell, I guess take away all the playoff win records of a team if they win the Super Bowl, right? Cause you can’t win those without getting there. A win is a win, my Raheemite-friend.
BTW did you just compare American Football to World Cup Succer? Man, why even bother posting?
July 9th, 2010 at 9:08 am
@Louie
It has to be Fed! They are the only ones with the stones to proclaim themselves to be “Big Brother” and be proud of it. After all, the only power over our Federal Government is God. And I’m not so sure about that anymore! Boats, Golfing, Assistants, Losing money and not caring! Probably DEA. They are famous for pilfering the confiscated money and drugs after a bust. It “pays” to be a federal officer!
July 9th, 2010 at 9:17 am
Oar, no, there are others . . BigMac, don’t think Politics are my thing? Wow, that one REALLY hurt!!
July 9th, 2010 at 9:20 am
Tampa2- Golf? I don’t golf!!
July 9th, 2010 at 9:32 am
CaptTim, You have yours and I have mine. I’ll stick with mine, thank you.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:35 am
McBuc said: “I just want to know why he has a high probabilty of success and Morris has a high probability of failure.”
RahDom says, really? If you are that blind, then ok, here you go:
Jon Gruden:
OAK 1998 __ 8 __ 8
OAK 1999 __ 8 __ 8
OAK 2000 _ 12 __ 4 _(1) 1st in AFC West
OAK 2001 _ 10 __ 6 _(2) 1st in AFC West
TAM 2002 _ 12 __ 4 _(3) 1st in NFC South
TAM 2003 __ 7 __ 9
TAM 2004 __ 5 _ 11
TAM 2005 _ 11 __ 5 _(4) 1st in NFC South
TAM 2006 __ 4 _ 12
TAM 2007 __ 9 __ 7 _(5) 1st in NFC South
TAM 2008 __ 9 __ 7
That is ONLY 3 losing seasons in 11 seasons.
5 Division Titles.
1 NFC Championship
1 Super Bowl
Raheem Morris:
3-13
That pretty much sums it up.
MORON.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:59 am
Ok… I take back the moron comment.
BUT, there is no way you can argue the above facts while being taken seriously.
AND THE ABOVE IS THE WHOLE POINT. Hating on the winner and supporting the loser just doesn’t fit with a large Buccaneer’s fanbase. It makes no sense.
If anything I ask, why did you clowns chase Gruden away?