Timing of Youth Movement Curious
July 12th, 2010
Andy Benoit of the New York Times is not too kind to Bucs linebacker Barrett Ruud in his preview of the 2010 Bucs.
Well, the New York Times is hardly the publication that fans the flames of conspiracy theories but it sure seems that way as Andy Benoit typed a preview of the 2010 Bucs.
Benoit wastes no time in stating that the Bucs youth movement coincided with Team Glazer’s rising debt — so some reports suggest — on its English kickball team.
It’s awfully convenient that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers chose to rebuild – or, as they’re calling it, undergo a “youth movement” – right around the time that the Glazer family’s debt soared sky high. Buc fans will say it’s a little too convenient. But they should empathize. The economic downturn rocked Florida, leaving the state with 12 percent unemployment. As a consequence, the Bucs have lowered ticket prices on some upper-level seats but are still facing Jaguar-like home television blackouts in 2010. The team only avoided this depressing scenario last season by handing out free tickets to local sponsors and charities.
Benoit, then seemingly channeling his inner Justin Pawlowski, unloads on Bucs linebacker Barrett Ruud claiming his tackle statistics are bloated.
There’s no guarantee that improved tackle play will make these linebackers effective. People don’t realize how mediocre Barrett Ruud is. Yes, Ruud is a productive tackler. But many of his stops come too far downfield. And when the Bucs need a thumper who can blow up a lead-block and make a tone-setting play, Ruud is often nowhere to be found.
In short, Benoit, like Joe, isn’t expecting much from the Bucs this year. Benoit believes as much as anything, this season is a proving ground for young players as well as Bucs coach Raheem the Dream.
(Hat tip Bucstats.com)
July 12th, 2010 at 8:29 am
Sometimes it takes an outsider to confirm how things really are with the Bucs. I know a lot of people on here are screaming about the DE’s (or lack of) on the Bucs. This is true, but they will not be the difference between success on Defense or complete failure. Going back to the Tampa 2 we need the DT’s, the safties, and especially the middle linebacker to be very physical and plug some holes. Teams recently have been able to over power the middle of our D with their physical style of running. Unless they are able to correct this; it really won’t matter much who plays DE. Teams only pass when you force them to and so far we don’t. We will see this year if Ruud can be that physical force or if he is just another Finesse player with inflated tackle stats.
July 12th, 2010 at 8:42 am
39 year old QB, 37 and 36 year old WRs, 34 year old Lbs and CBS, no young talent anywhere. Yup the youth movement is all about Man U!! What else could it be? Proves there is at least one person in NY as stupid as some of the posters here! And yes, the Bucs will not be very good this year. We all know that. Probably won’t be a contender next year either. Most of us know that too! No problem here, called rebuilding. I’ll still be at the stadium, tailgating and watching ” the Kids”. And yes again, Ruud has some things ta prove this year
July 12th, 2010 at 8:44 am
What will it take for all the Ruud haters? Obviously, bloated stats don’t do it for you.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:03 am
LMAO!!! Captimmmy delusionally fighting the national media.
He said “Proves there is at least one person in NY as stupid as some of the posters here!”
Timmy… maybe you need to go have a tickle fight with your Navy Seaman… you snorkeler.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:07 am
Or meybe you need to pull yer head outta your ass, and quit blaming the Bucs for your failed, miserable life
July 12th, 2010 at 9:13 am
This is the second reply from you in a few days, cursing the outside of Tampa media outlets who defy your illogic… tickling timmy.
You are wrong. Stop pandoring to the Glazers at the lowest point in their ownership.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:17 am
Getting three tackles in the season for a loss might be a start.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:21 am
CalicoJack Says,
“What will it take for all the Ruud haters? Obviously, bloated stats don’t do it for you.”
I consider myself a Ruud realist!
Also, that would be bloated Stat; single stat that is easily inflated. Show me one other stat for Ruud that is worth a crap and maybe I’ll change my position.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:23 am
Wow Joe that’s a good one! I must have missed that one!
July 12th, 2010 at 9:47 am
Its the youth/stupidity/incompetence movement at the Head Coaching position and GM level which is most concerning.
The Glazer’s strategy to save money at the expense of the competitiveness of the team is so obvious, I am surprised anyone feels the need to state the point anymore. Only the deaf, blind, dumb or those in complete denial fail to recognize it,
July 12th, 2010 at 9:51 am
LOL!
July 12th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Tackles for Loss is your guage, Joe?
Would 5 TFLs be good enough?
July 12th, 2010 at 10:09 am
I think people are upset (rightfully so) that the Glaziers have not spent the money on improving the team. (3rd lowest payroll in the league). The perception is cheap though and I don’t think that is the case. Since 2000; the Bucs have been in the top 5 in payroll twice and in the top 50% all but the past couple of years. People confuse lack of working capital with being cheap. Now if you want to say bring in owners with deeper pockets then by all means. The Glaziers could turn around and sell ManU or the Bucs for a huge profit if they chose to. Whether you believe the cause is ManU or not the fact is they are suffering from lack of working capital to pay these signing bonuses. You can be worth 1.5 Billion dollars, but all that money can easily be tied up in investments.
July 12th, 2010 at 10:09 am
This article exactly captures the point! Those of us called “haters” are not happy for the reason outlined in the article.
It is more than “curious” to many that the Glazer’s spending dried up when ManU was acquired. The financial commitment to this team is not nearly the same as it was. Where is the marquee player? We previously had Sapp, Lynch, Brooks, Rice, Keyshawn etc. Now? K2 maybe.
A secondary reason for the new “pinch-a-penny” philosohpy may be that the old man Glazer became ill. Some say – the same group is in charge – that is not true – Joel and Bryann Glazer are not Malcolm.
The Capt. Dim’s and Jimbuc’s of the world really do not even deserve to be dignified. It is pure fantasy to believe that you need 3 years to rebuild, that is an illusion. Drafting well, getting younger and getting better by targeting Pro-Bowl caliber talent at positions of need through trade or Free Agency are not mutually exclusive strategies.
THAT IS WHY THE HONEST AND OBJECTIVE OUTSIDE OF THIS AREA KNOW THAT THIS FRANCHISE ISNT GOING YOUNG IT IS GOING CHEAP!
Someone answer this: do the bucs have the lowest paid and least qualified/credentialed HC and GM in the league? I think that the answer is obvious.
My point: I can understand taking a chance with one or the other being green, but not both, that is a recipe for disaster!
July 12th, 2010 at 10:11 am
BucnJim:
the Times ran article last year – the bucs are 32nd in the NFL in players salaries since 2003 – yes dead last. Look it up.
July 12th, 2010 at 10:18 am
CalicoJack Says:
Tackles for Loss is your guage, Joe?
Would 5 TFLs be good enough?
What Joe is talking about are splash plays! Game changing plays that the leader of ANY defense in the NFL should be making. That would include: Tackles for a loss, fumbles caused, fumble recoveries, interceptions, crushing hits, sacks, passes defensed, QB pressures, team leadership, etc…etc… It’s the fact that he is the leader of this defense that has me worried. When Sapp & Lynch were here they were the leaders. You don’t have to be middle linebacker to be the leader of the D, but for some reason they gave him the crown.
July 12th, 2010 at 10:21 am
Thanks, Bucnjim… Can you read my mind, too?
July 12th, 2010 at 10:32 am
You guys are nuts if you think that Ruud is more the problem than the cure.
Ruud makes big plays covering receivers down field – I can think of a few memorable picks. Covering receivers down the deep middle is critical for the Tampa 2 as that is where there is a BIG vulnerability in that defsne due to the Safeties having sideline responsibilites.
Other than Nickerson, the Bucs have never had a physical Mike LB. From Nate Webster to Jamie Duncan to Shelton Quarles etc those guys were smaller coverage guys who could run and make tackles – none of those guys were “blow-you-up” tacklers. Nether was Derrick Brooks for that matter – Brooks was a pursuit Will (weakside) LB who could avoid blocks and clean things up laterally.
Ruud is very good and when he leaves in 2011 he will be solid for someone else.
July 12th, 2010 at 10:47 am
Ervin Randle was a beast at MLB, and also started the” lose Bucco Bruce ” movement , to change our Ligo and identity to something a little less effeminate.
July 12th, 2010 at 10:49 am
And while it was the 3-4 defense, David Lewis and Dewy Selmon were monster MLbs for the Bucs
July 12th, 2010 at 10:56 am
Randle played in a 3-4, too.
July 12th, 2010 at 10:59 am
I’m not saying Ruud sucks! What I’m saying is I expect a physical force from the leader of the Bucs defense. I expect game changing plays from the LEADER of the defense. Whoever takes that leadership role needs to have those qualities. Sapp was a DT and Lynch of course a safety, so it doesn’t matter who takes over that role, but it does matter how they perform. Not everyone can be a Ray Lewis, but it would be nice if someone on our team can stand up and be a force to be reckoned with. Will the next John Lynch please step forward!
July 12th, 2010 at 11:01 am
…and David Lewis was an outside linebacker…
July 12th, 2010 at 11:02 am
Ok, during the worst recession in history, the Glazers are saving money? I don’t have a problem with that. I mean, read the idiots that post here! Terrible fans! Frankly, as bad as the support for the team is, and as many idiots you have posting here, we are just lucky ta have a team at all! If you had the team your “support” warranted, the Bucs would be in LA! And the Tuskers would be looking to relocate. With all the stupidity I’ve read here in the last few weeks, I’m surprised the Glazers even try to bring a winning team here. I wouldn’t, and have told them so. I travel alot, and have never seen fans in any other city bad mouth their team the way people do here. From Radio, to newspapers, to websites. Always the same! Don’t cry when they do relocate, it won’t be a mystery to most of us as to why!
July 12th, 2010 at 11:04 am
If Sapp had been the only leader on those defenses, they’d have sucked, too. Like the defenses the Hardy Nickerson played on when he was the only leader…
July 12th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Thomas,
This is not to argue with you; just informational:
Buccaneer Salaries by year:
2000-4th
2001-10th
2002-16th
2003-2nd Saints 1st
2004-16th
2005-23rd
2006-31st
2007-23rd
2008-22nd
2009-30th
2010-?
The overall average is 17th in salary, but I see the trend and understand why everyone is pissed. My point being though is I think it is from lack of cash and not being cheap that’s all.
July 12th, 2010 at 11:19 am
Hardy Nickerson single handedly changed the attitude of this entire franchise. Give the man some respect! The number one all time FA signing of this franchise.
July 12th, 2010 at 11:23 am
AB, Faine, Galloway (traded key for him), Hilliard, Garcia, Pittman, etc. not bad either.
Is there a big difference between cheap and “lack of cash”. Net effect is the same, isn’t it?
July 12th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Bucnjim, no disrespect to Hardy whatsoever. But, the team that he helped turn the corner had a lousy defense despite his leadership and play…
July 12th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Who is David Lewis?
July 12th, 2010 at 11:26 am
Eric you are right! Culverhouse was cheap though and I lived through hell all those years.
July 12th, 2010 at 11:51 am
Richard “batman” wood and Cecil Johnson were the outside backers, Lewis and Selmon were inside.
July 12th, 2010 at 11:57 am
BucnJim:
The numbers you reference are artificially high, please see the Times article re: ACTUALLY MONEY SPENT ON PLAYERS.
The “salary” number was inflated by the Bucs to ARTIFICIALLY get the team over the salary floor: As an example, the Times article cited the Noah Herron contract that the team did which was officially a 25 million dollar contract because it contained fraudulent incentives that would never be earned: like Noah Herron had to block 6 punts to earn the full value of that contract, otherwise he received the league minimum.
The official “salary” was the inflated number not the actual money paid.
Take the time to read the article and you will understand the error of your ways; Just google the Noah Herron contract!
July 12th, 2010 at 11:58 am
Dave Lewis (’77-’81) played in the 1980 pro bowl while with the Bucs; I did not know that. Did not start following the Bucs until 1985 so a little before my time
July 12th, 2010 at 11:59 am
Old FA= low salaries, young talent= high salaries. Gruden was fired for ” not developing young (expensive) talent, as stated at news coference to announce his firing. If the Glazers were cheap, they had the right man! Wait til you see GMC’ contract, or Price, or Benn! If the slowest will figure that out. . . Nah, those idiots will say the Glazers are wasting money, just as soon as we sign the rookies, and end up in the middle of the Salary pack.
July 12th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
Thomas,
This was just information I pulled from USA Today who has all the teams listed. How accurate it is I have no idea! Like I said not to argue because I agree in the basic principle that they are not spending the money.
July 12th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
I remember watching David Lewis back in the Old Sombreo with my Dad, when I was just a little kid. Team was still new ta Tampa, and everybody loved that team! Remember the Bucs playing the Rams in the NFC championship game like it was yesterday. Doug Williams got his Jaw broken early, and we lost 9-0. If Doug had played that game, Tampa nights won their first Superbowl that year! Heck of a defense! I’m miss my dad, but am glad I can share those experiences with my Daughter this year! Nothing like a Day at the Stadium. Tampa is kind of a small market, but I hope she will be able to bring her Lil rug runners to a Bucs game someday. And I hope it’s dtstill in Tampa!
July 12th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
We will all find out with a better line this year… lets see if we can slow down the run… lets see if Ruud can get in there and stuff the run with a real D-Line… and even though they are rookies, there should be a good enougj platoon that should make the line better.
July 12th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Capt tim,
I was at that game with my dad!
Trivia,
Who threw the halfback pass that Larry Mucker almost turned into the go ahead touchdown? And, for bonus points, who made the tackle on the play for the Rams?
July 12th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Just like Antonio Bryant had to prove himself a second time…
July 12th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
Capt’ you made a very good point and probably didn’t even realize it. Sports; whether it high school, College or the Pro’s; is all about tradition. Teams with long standing tradition draw better fan bases. The Bucs have only been around since the 70’s so are just now starting the family tradition of going to Bucs games. Teams that have been around for 50 or 100 years have had Great Grandfathers, Grandfathers, Fathers sons & of course daughters as well go to games. If we are lucky we’ll be grandfathers taking our grandchildren to the games.
July 12th, 2010 at 12:43 pm
It would be an improvement. 🙂
July 12th, 2010 at 12:48 pm
The financial commitment to this team is not nearly the same as it was. Where is the marquee player? We previously had Sapp, Lynch, Brooks, Rice, Keyshawn etc. Now? K2 maybe.
Sapp(drafted), Lynch(drafted), Brooks(drafted), Rice(FA), Keyshawn(trade-Two1st rd draft picks)
AB(FA), Faine(FA), Galloway (traded key for him), Hilliard(FA), Garcia(FA), Pittman(FA), K2 (FA-2nd)
Commitment has to start somewhere, drafting or acquiring players. It takes time and the availability of said players in FA or the Draft.
So as i see it we have gotten years younger, and have not seen any Veteran FA who we can (re)build with. Yeah the WR’s everyone spoke of and are still professing their belief now in how much better we would have been, ect, might have been nice. But you just can’t buy whats not on the shelves. So you have to look at what players are available, who fit into our team “plan”. We have gotten some very good looking players in the draft and FA who fit into the team. Brown, Jones, Vincent,
July 12th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
I see Commitment! Kool-Aid i know but my shot glass is always half-full
July 12th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Nothing brings out the masses like a little conspiracy theory. Of course debt has an impact, as does the economy and the uncertainty in the league. Same story, repackaged over and over again, but it sells.
July 12th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
@bucnjum
“This is not to argue with you; just informational:
Buccaneer Salaries by year:
2000-4th
2001-10th
2002-16th
2003-2nd Saints 1st
2004-16th
2005-23rd
2006-31st
2007-23rd
2008-22nd
2009-30th
2010-?
Lets be a little more real! Where are they in the standings since Malcom went into a coma and the 3 tightwad Kids took over? Then do your average! The kids have raped the Bucs!
July 12th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
@ bucnjim
Malcom Glazer’s stroke was in 2006. Then the 3 scrooges took over.
2006-31st
2007-23rd
2008-22nd
2009-30th
2010-has to be 32nd
Old Malcom knew what it took to draw fans. The 3 scrooges just take the cash!
July 12th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Joe, 5 TFLs would be an improvement of 2. The 5 TFLs would match what Shelton Quarles got in 2002…
Trivia answer: Ricky Bell threw the pass, Elmendorf made the tackle.
Williams didn’t break his jaw in that game. He did have to sit out part of the game with an injury, as did Lee Roy Selmon. The broken jaw was in Williams’ 10th game of his rookie season…
July 12th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
hmmmmmmmmmmm don’t think it was Bell throwing or Elmendorf tackling
July 12th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
Then it was Eckwood who threw it and Elmendorf on the tackle in the third quarter.
July 12th, 2010 at 1:39 pm
I thought it was Nolan Cromwell tackling, but could be wrong.
July 12th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
If the line of scrimmage was 15 yards downfield , Barrett Rudd would be the best linebacker ever to play the game.
As it stands now , he’s an over-rated , soft , piece of crap.
July 12th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Don’t sugar coat it Radio…………….
July 12th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Hmmm,I remember the play, but ya got me, Eric. I thought it was Eckwood passing, and Joel Youngblood on the tackle, but can’t be sure! And that was my point about tradition. I don’t know if that’s why the fans here don’t seem to have any pride in the team, meybe because our Grandfathers didn’t take us to the games. I don’t know. But every city I go to, the fans seem to have an amount of respect for the team ands it’s traditions. Sure , they question draft picks and player moves like we do, but they don’t just HATE everyone and everything associated with the team. Tampa is great place to live. I’m always dying to get back here! I can’t believe how many just hateful, angry, people are just constantly hating on a team, that they aren’t forced to watch! If you hate them that bad, quit watching. For most of these guys, there’s nothing about the team they like! Try living in LA( future home of your Bucs, by the way), or Cleveland, St.Louis, any place that had a team and lost it. Places were like funerals on Sundays. NOTHING beats having a team to argue about, then cheer for on Sundays. NOTHING! Everyone here assumes having the team is a given. It’s not! A bother year or two with bad turn outs, and this team is outta here,blaming it on recession impact! I can Fly my daughter to a Bucs game in LA. Not everyone can. And once they leave, will I Want to?
I
July 12th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
Yeah, Rustyrhino, ole buddy, my shot glass is always half full of koolaide too, but we’re awfully Lonely drinking it, ain’t we! Well, I ‘m not changing, and am already planning for the first tailgater:)
July 12th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Capt Tim,
The bucs aren’t going anywhere. Too sweet a stadium deal and practice facility for that to happen.
Folks like me do not hate the bucs, just expressing frustration with the current state of affairs.
I would think that a fellow longtime fan like yourself would be as upset as I am, over what appears to be a return to the Hugh era mentality. Also, I cant fathom the vitriol aimed toward the man who coached us to our one shining moment in the sun. Makes no sense to me. Especially when those same folks who ran him out of town scream “hater” to anyone criticizing his successor.
From my perspective, a lot of the bucdom nation is backasswards.
July 12th, 2010 at 3:10 pm
Lost in all this hoopla over whether the Glazers are cheap or not, I found it surprising that the best and most in-depth review of a upcoming Buccaneers season so far that I’ve read hasn’t been by anyone in the local TB media but a Blog stuck on the New York Times.. it was a very good write up and honestly written as objective as you could ask for, I didn’t agree with all the points in the article but I can’t complain at all at how it was written
July 12th, 2010 at 3:35 pm
It’s pretty obvious the Bucs are cheap!! I mean there are several moves they could have made this offseason and they didn’t do it!!!! They wouldn’t even give up a 3rd round pick for Anquan Boldin….talk about reasonable!!!! Ok, well Myron Lewis better be a damn pro bowler than!!!! Also, Santonio Holmes. Only a 5th round pick for him… what the hell??!!!!! I know about the trouble he’s gotten into and the issues he’s had, but for a 5th round pick??? and they didn’t get him. They would not have even given up anything and if it didn’t work out we wouldn’t have lost anything really.
It’s one thing after another like those things that I’m talking about.
July 12th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
There Patrick is the inconsisteny:
The type of trouble that Talib and Jackson are is acceptable, but not Santonio – according to the sheep. The bucs took a Punter with their fifth round pick I believe!
To say that Myron Lewis will reap bigger rewards than a Boldin is even more foolish.
July 12th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Not only that, but Brandon Marshall would have been the most talented receiver in bucs history. 100 catch seasons three years in a row!
Teamed with AB, instant contenders. Throw Holmes in the mix, and a shot at NFC South with proper coaching.
Many, many opportunites, all missed. But hey, we got Clayton coming to camp, were good.
Instead, perpetual pretenders.
July 12th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
@ Patrick
“…hey wouldn’t even give up a 3rd round pick for Anquan Boldin….talk about reasonable!!!!”
He’s too old/on the downside of his career to be worth a premium pick. He’s got two-three productive years left, tops.
“Also, Santonio Holmes. Only a 5th round pick for him… what the hell??!!!!!”
We didn’t have a 5th round pick to give. Traded away to the Brownies for K2. Can’t argue against your logic though. Holmes for a 5th would’ve been a steal.
July 12th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
@ thomas
“The type of trouble that Talib and Jackson are is acceptable, but not Santonio – according to the sheep.”
Talib – 1) A&B 2)T Jax – Weed
Holmes: 1) Disorderly Conduct charge; 2) Domestic Abuse charge; 3) Nightclub Incident; 4) Airline Incident
I don’t think the players are on equal footing in terms of public bad acts. Talib and T Jax have had one public issue each; no trend of bad behavior has been set. With Santonio it appears to be a trend. I’m not sure it would have been a good idea to add another questionable personality (especially a wide receiver) to such a young team/inexperienced coaching staff.
Furthermore, I don’t think he’s anything more than a solid #2 wide receiver. Until this season he’s put up pedestrian numbers and never made the Pro Bowl despite having a franchise (albeit flawed) QB throwing him the ball.
Would I love to have him for a 5th? Yeah but we didn’t have one. We gave it up for K2. Would I go back and redo the K2 trade again if I knew we could have our 2nd rounder back and get Holmes? Maybe.
July 12th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Im pretty sure we had a fifth rounder this year………………and traded it to move up?
July 12th, 2010 at 5:07 pm
@sensiblefan
You’re right. We did give up a 5th rounder for K2 but we also got it back when we traded away Luke McCown to Jacksonville. We used the 5th rounder on punter Brent Bowden.
July 12th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
No wait, eric’s right. We used it to trade up for Benn so I guess Bowden was picked in the 6th round.
July 12th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
Whats the matter with a solid number two receiver?
July 12th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Ok, Eric, go to “Brandon Marshall Pratice” on UTube. He refuses to practice, takes the practice ball and punts it into the parking lot, refuses to catch passes, refuses to run sprints. One of the worst displays of childish behavior I’ve ever seen! Not a guy I wanna cheer for, or have my daughter wearing his jersey. If you watch that, and still wish this prima Donna was here, read no futher. If you watched that, and agree he’s a jerk, then read futher. I don’t think the Glazers are being cheap. They fired Gruden for” not developing young talent”. They hired Raheem because he showed real skills at teaching young players, plus the team revolted against Gruden. They knew we were in rebuilding mode, so A coach who is good with young players, and is a players coach, makes perfect sense. Did they hire him to win a championship- no. When that time comes, they’ll hire that Coach. Raheem is here to develop the young players, and rebuild team chemistry- sorta Dungy part 2. The Glazers are building the core team thru the Draft, because that’s what won them the Superbowl last time. No more or less complicated than that. Say we signed A bunch of free agents, would this team be a contender? Nope, not a chance. Rookie QB, WR,DT. Nope, a year or two away. Sign the free agents and gunslinger coach for the playoff push, NOT during year two of the rebuild. Sooo, I am not upset with the way things are going, because I believe they are doing things the right way! The things I am upset about are 1) we shoulda fired Dungy, and hired Gruden two years earlier- that team coulda won two or three Superbowls 2) they shoulda fired Gruden sooner, and started the rebuild while some vets still had trade value. But I honestly believe they are doing things exactly the way they should. Some coaches/ players won’t pan out., but the PROCESS is headed the right way. All the other BS is just that. We are starting at the bottom of the mountain, and it’s a long climb. But, we did once, we can do it again. Lots of other teams have never done it! And finally, we’ve started the climb. But the hard part now, was the hard part then- patience
July 12th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
@ patrick and eric
Whoops! I stand corrected. So it’s a Benn (+ a 5th) vs. Holmes comparison…hard to argue that one.
Holmes could’ve come in and started as a #1 and then slid back to #2 as Mike Williams took over the #1 slot assuming the indications from the preseason hold to be true. The pick certainly looks questionable in hindsight unless Benn matches Holmes production and Holmes fails to match his ’09 numbers and continues to be a knucklehead.
Costly miss on Holmes and having to overpay to move up to draft Benn.
July 12th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Every story, no matter the topic, is an opportunity to talk about Brandon Marshall and Santonio Holmes. Man, change the name to JoeTurdFan.com
July 12th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
“Whats the matter with a solid number two receiver?”
For a 5th rounder? Nothing at all.
But Holmes is a knucklehead. If you’re a #1 guy, that’s acceptable but for #2s coming onto a young team, I’d prefer not. He’s not good enough to warrant the front office dealing w/any more indiscretions and he could be poisonous to the growth of a young locker room devoid of leaders.
…If you put a gun to my head I would’ve taken him on (despite his upcoming 4 game suspension) and dealt with the consequences because a 5th rounder is too good to pass up.
July 12th, 2010 at 6:11 pm
I think I’ll just wait to see and his new receivers play a game or two before I snap to a rash judgment, based on nothing other than Bull$hit. That’s all it is right now is hot freakin air and steaming Bull$hit. Worry all day, worry all you want, but I’m waiting to see how they perform. It would have been great to get Holmes, Marshall, Jammal Brown & even BigChin Cowher. But we didn’t so lets all go jump off the Effin Skyway and take the team with us. All hope is forever lost. The Mayans were wrong, the World ends in 2010′ not 2012. What a bunch of stupid Mexicandians to not predict the Bucs would bring an end to civilization 2 years early. I am so disappointed. And JimBuc I wasn’t drinking or threatening the other night. You can’t read like the rest of us and you reminded me of Alice Kramden.
July 12th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
Ah, I see, Rah is only overseeing the pre-dynasty era becuse of his proven record of developing young players. Then, we will hire another coach to push us over the top, along with free agents.
Awesome!
Nothing convoluted here!
July 12th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
eric, you are a funny guy. lol
July 12th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
Alice Kramden?
POW, right in the kisser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 12th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
Eventually we can fire Dominik and bring in Matt Millen to take us to the promised land!!
July 12th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Let me ask you idiots – why does acquiring a Santanio Holmes or Boldin mean that you can’t still draft a Mike Williams in the fourth round.
Speaking of character issues (and I think Williams was their best value pick), you are talking about a player who was kicked off the team for academic dishonesty and quit on the team in the middle of the season during his brief tenure at Syracuse.
And both Talib and Jackson have more than “one public issue.” T Jax only earns a 4 game suspension after a second positive test. Talib tested positive at the combine and had other run-ins in addition to the cabby offense.
Most franchises have a rookie, a mid-level player (26-28 y.o. 3-5 year pro), and a couple of proven vets at key positions like WR. Holmes or Boldin, with Williams and/or Benn and stroughter is not a pipe dream, unheard of receiving corp. It is the norm.
And as to this theory that Raheem can develop young talent that is absurd – I don’t mean to be offensive, but he can’t develop a clearly understandable cohesive thought. I do believe that he could develop some young DB talent, but to say that he can do anything beyond that is dead wrong.
Jimbuc, Capt Dim – do you actually believe that Raheem was hired to develop Freeman or Williams or Benn or Zuttah etc. Of course not! Raheem is the head coach b/c he accepted a grossly offer by the Glazers for the position so that the Glazer kids could hedge their bet when they fired Gruden that he would be rehired by another club getting them off the hook for his salary.
That was the only reason that Rah was hired! The Glazers are prepared to ride-out 3 years of losing until their finances sort out with Manu, the CBA etc and they will not make a monetary commitment to win until they have more ccost-certainty. I think that that is unfair from the standpoint of the fan.
I believe in an implied warranty that season ticket holders have is that the org will do everything reasonable to field a competitive team, this org did that until approx 04-05, lately and most unfairly was 2009 to date.
July 12th, 2010 at 7:38 pm
BTW – speaking of Millen.
How did his practice of drafting players at the same position with “premium picks” work out for him? Most of you probably blasted Millen for continuing to draft big receivers in the first round three or four consecutive years?
Yet praise these idiots for drafting 3 undertackles within the first 3 rounds of the last two drafts. We now have three identical players at the undertackle position which is senseless.
July 12th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
@thomas
“Speaking of character issues (and I think Williams was their best value pick), you are talking about a player who was kicked off the team for academic dishonesty and quit on the team in the middle of the season during his brief tenure at Syracuse.”
Williams (academics) > Holmes (5 brushes with the law and/or the league). Williams had one red flag prior to being drafted. Holmes has a whole flag pole of red flags lol.
“And both Talib and Jackson have more than “one public issue.” T Jax only earns a 4 game suspension after a second positive test. Talib tested positive at the combine and had other run-ins in addition to the cabby offense.”
That’s not very persuasive evidence. Santonio Holmes has committed/allegedly committed each one of these offenses and more. He’s very much on Goodell’s Watch List, especially after serving his 4 game suspension for substance abuse. The Steelers were willing to give Limas Sweed (before his season-ending injury) a chance to start rather than deal with this guy any longer.
July 12th, 2010 at 8:23 pm
I agree with Thomas, you need to have a mix of proven players and rookies. I like Mike Williams and some of the other rookies we got. But tell me, what is so special about the draft?? All 32 teams have a draft every year, they have young talent come in, etc. If we would’ve brought in just 1 or 2 more free agents, it would’ve given us more of a chance for NEXT year. Yeah, 2010! Not 3 or 4 years from now. You try to make your team competitive as much as you can for EVERY year. Bringing in some proven players and a FEW old guys isn’t going to hurt us. That’s what FA is for. Teams don’t just do nothing but the draft like we’re doing because they want to win and not waste valuable seasons.
You can still develop young talent no matter who is on a team. Be realistic. You need to have other people to turn too instead of putting so much trust into a bunch of rookies.
July 12th, 2010 at 8:33 pm
“How did his practice of drafting players at the same position with “premium picks” work out for him? Most of you probably blasted Millen for continuing to draft big receivers in the first round three or four consecutive years?”
In the grand scheme of things, wide receiver is not an important position for more than one premium pick, whereas defensive line is vitally important. How many plays does a receiver actually have an effect on the play versus a defensive/offensive lineman? I’ve already addressed the the technical reasoning in your undertackle/nose argument.
Wide receivers make SportsCenter; the Big Uglies win championships.
July 12th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
@sensiblefan: “Wide receivers make SportsCenter; the Big Uglies win championships.”
Oh yea! Name 2 key big uglies for the Saints. Exactly, their D-Line / Big Uglies were so pedestrian that they signed a Buc cast-off to a lucrative FA deal.
Now name 2 key Saint wr’s: how about Meachem, Henderson, Colston and arguably Shockey and Bush play roles as additional wr’s.
The saints were 25th in total defense and 26th in pass defense, yet won the division easily and super bowl.
So, the nfl of this era – dominant offenses deliver championships most often – see – Saints, Colts, Patriots and arguably the Giants in the post-season as they equalled the offensive strength of the Pats.
This isnt the late 90’s – early 00’s anymore where the ravens, bucs etc won with defense only.
July 12th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
@ thomas
You’re making this too easy bro! You list the exception rather than the rule:
7 of the last 10 Super Bowl winners (Ravens in 00′, Pats 01′, Bucs in 02′, Pats in 04′ (arguably), Steelers in 05′, Giants in 07′, Steelers in 08′) were defensive-oriented/grind it out/win ugly teams.
Look at the Saints since they got Brees, always picked to make it to the Super Bowl yet always falling woefully short. They’ve always had the gaudy passing numbers but shockingly when they finally got a pressuring defense built with their most talented people right in the middle of the defense (Sedrick Ellis, John Vilma, and Darren Sharper) and a running game that could actually run up the middle they finally won the Super Bowl.
Football is an easy game Thomas. Build from the middle out and you win more often than you lose.
July 13th, 2010 at 9:08 am
I didn’t read the 83 comments… 83?
It’s blatantly obvious that everything indicated it was time to be done. Why so nefarious?
The Bucs are a business, first and foremost.
Carry on whining…
/hi jack.
July 13th, 2010 at 12:08 pm
Sadly, Eric did not view the U Tube video on his beloved Brandon Marshall. The video was from a Denver station, and they, along with the Bronco fan base, wanted him ridden out of town on a rail. The guy was a class A jerk. Too bad, guess Eric would rather have the fantasy”Brandon the savior”, than the reality that the guy was a disruptive, self centered jerk. He’s a younger, meybe more obnoxious T.O. Teams don’t win championships with losers like that on their team. List the jerks, then count the rings.
July 13th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Capt. Tim
I did view the utube of his 200 yard game and 20 catches against the colts last year. More catches in one game than your hero Mr. Clayton had in the entire year. And, I also took note of his three straight 100 catch seasons.
Perhaps you are impressed with practice, while I look to on the field performance.
If you have Direct TV, tune into the Dolphins this year. Then, look in the mirror and declare yourself the total idiot you obviously are.
July 13th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Or, perhaps you don’t recognize a total jerk off when you see one, as one stares at you in the mirror every morning when you shave! Had you bothered to watch the video, you would know why the entire city of Denver was screaming to get this idiot off their team. And why, considering his lofty stats, there were so few takers! Because he’s a cancer to his own team, and not worth the headaches! Of course, since you’ve been professing you love for him, even long after he was finally dumped to the Dolphins, you can’t bear to realize how wrong you were about him. Then, you might have to admit you are wrong about other things. Probably most things. Nope, better to keep your head firmly planted in your butt, and keep crying for this loser that is already ( thankfully) contaminating someone elses team! How about T.O. ? He’s still available?