Josh Freeman = Warren Moon
July 19th, 2010
Last summer when Joe interviewed Bucs tight end Kellen Winslow, he compared Bucs quarterback Josh Freeman as a “black Ben Roethlisberger.”
Pat Kirwan has another famous quarterback that Freeman reminds him of.
During a recent chat on NFL.com, Kirwan cautioned Bucs fans not to get their hopes up too high for Freeman — this year. Down the road, Kirwan dared to predict Freeman could be the next Warren Moon.
Bucs Fan, Tampa, Fl
Hi Pat, Do you see Josh Freeman possibly making an impact this year for the team?Pat Kirwan, NFL.com
I’m a big fan of Josh Freeman. As I’ve stated many times before, he reminds me of a young Warren Moon. His challenge this year besides his own development is bringing along two rookie WRs and getting them up to par with the NFL game. That is a big challenge. Two or three years from now, he may be the best from his class.
Coming from Kirwan, this warms Joe’s heart. Like Kirwan, Joe is not expecting anything from Freeman. Look, how can anyone expect Freeman to shine when he doesn’t have anything to work with? His running backs are average at best, and to be honest, that’s a stretch. Freeman’s best receiver isn’t even a receiver, it’s his tight end. His two top receivers likely will be rookies.
Joe Montana might even struggle with that supporting cast.
July 19th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
He is kinda like Moon.
What I can’t follow is why they think he is a match for the West Coast Offense. He has the cannon arm for the long ball/vertical game.
Seems almost like a waste of talent to me.
The Dream aint got 3-4 years to develop the guy. And, i suspect he couldn’t if he had ten.
Cowher, on the other hand, has proven adeptness with young strong armed qb’s.
July 19th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Your saying it’s a stretch that the Buccaneers RB’s are even average Joe? Are you kidding? If you don’t think they’re premier running backs that’s one thing, they really aren’t. But to state that they’re below average is a little over the top. Cadillac had over a 1,000 yards from scrimmage just a half year removed from his second major knee injury last season. The Bucs two biggest problems in the running game have nothing to do with the talent of the running backs. The first problem is the offensive line play, our run blocking last season was horrendous, they averaged like 3.9 yards a carry but they got hit at the line of scrimmage on half of there running plays. The second problem is that they have to many RB’s. Lots of runners, Caddy included, get better as the game goes on. But they can’t get a rhythm going if they gotta share the carries with two other guys. They really ought to trade Derrick Ward. We don’t need him.
For real Joe, what has Earnest Graham or Carnell Williams ever done in a game to make you say they’re below average talent level in the NFL? Your only argument is that they’re old and that they got hurt before… BFD!
July 19th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
MichiganBucsFan:
Numbers and facts don’t lie. Bucs were No. 25 in yards per attempt last season. That’s 25 out of 32 teams. To be honest, that’s not below average, that’s piss poor. But Joe was trying to be kind.
The last two years playing fullback, Earnest Graham has suffered season-ending injuries. He’s 30. The math is not very comforting.
Caddy is playing on two man-made knees. Not sure how anyone can be confident he can be a stud again. Caddy had just over 800 yards in 16 games. That’s nothing to brag about. Sure, it’s a great story how he came back from two knee injuries but the NFL doesn’t give brownie points for hustle.
Joe scours the internet for nuggets. He reaches out to many football scribes, both local and national. Joe has yet to find anywhere anyone that suggests the Bucs have a strong stable of running backs.
July 19th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Alot of other factors contributed to that 25th ranking. They will make you proud this year Joe.
July 19th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Hope so!
July 19th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
C-Mon Joe the sheep and the “Dim” believe that this suppoting cast is solid and ready to compete for a playoff spot. How could you be guilty of spewing such hate?
I think that you and Kirwan are right on point – Freeman may be good; however the rest of the team sucks (with the exception of K2, Talib, T Jax, Faine and maybe a few others). The coaching staff is bar none the worst in the league.
Ask your self this: would anyone believe that Rah and Greg Olson are capable and qualified to develop a team as inexperienced as this?
Of course not. If you really believe in this rebuild b.s., the one critical missing piece is that you have no experienced pros to lead these kids in the right direction.
Rah Morris and Greg Olson? What? You need a Parcells, Bellichick, Dungy, Shanahan, Holmgren, Cowher type to develop these kids appropriately. Not 2 guys that have never coordinated anything in the nfl except who was going to carry the coordinators cord during the game.
July 19th, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Good thing the players are behind this pathetic coaching staff, right Thomas? I guess the players don’t know as much as you do.
July 19th, 2010 at 1:55 pm
Warren Moon was slow as Molassas and totally immobile.
Freeman has mobility. The Ben Roethlesburger comparison is much better.
July 19th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Maybe the players know if a real coach came in a lot of them would have their asses cut? Or, hold them to a professional standard instead of making a bunch of excuses for them?
I’m sure Clayton absolutely loves “Rah”.
Joe Montana would throw up his hands in disgust and go home. After laughing in the Dream’s face of course.
July 19th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
Eric…Joe Montana has more class than you are giving him credit for. Many of the coaches you suggest are better at rebuilding teams had bad rookie years. SO, here we go again…BLAH BLAH BLAH
July 19th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
Yea, the Dream is Bill Walsh reincarnated.
Strap yourself down, the rocket ship that is Rah will be taking off soon to a dynasty near you.
July 19th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
I grew up in Houston, and Moon sucked. He had his moments, but they were few and far in between. Oilers/Titans whatever have never a had a real QB. Dan Pasthisweenie was probably the best and he sucked too. I remember his flack jacket, when they first came out because he spent so much time on his back. That team is jinxed and destined to suck forever. I would hate to be compared to Warren Moon if I was Josh. He’s a good kid. Moon and his buddies, Robert Brazile(LB) and Ken Burrough(WR) were always at the Discos. They used to live in the Ritz in Houston and were there constantly, week nights, always slutting it up. I was just as bad though, probably worse, LOL. Those guys cared less about Football and were all about the poontang and chasing white girls. I’ll give them one thing though, they were always dressed to the 9’s, and bling bling was big before these kids even knew what it meant. Crazy Times
July 19th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
Joe I’m curious as to what you consider as average? I’ve already expressed that I think the offensive line play was terrible and caused the ypc average to be so low. But Caddy having 800 yards on the ground, and over a 1000 from scrimmage is pretty good considering we have 2 (supposed to be 3) running backs sharing carries. Is it all pro numbers? No. Does it make him one of the best in the league? No. I never said it was something to brag about, I said it was better than below average.
So Williams and Ward didn’t put up numbers like Williams and Stewart in Carolina. But scour the internet for nuggets on those two and you’ll see that everyone agrees that they are two of the top 10 running backs in the NFL.
Again I’m not saying our running backs are some the best in the biz, I’m saying it’s not a stretch to call ’em average.
July 19th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
Eric, I guess you can see into the future. I hope you are not so misserable with the rest of your life, it is just football my man and I assume you are not playing, coaching, or working in any way in the NFL. For this, I am happy. I would hate to see you can everyone that does not have a steller rookie year.
July 19th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
I am not miserable, just giving my assessment of the teams chances, IMO.
I do not pretend that my opinion is better than anyone elses.
But, to assess me then YOU must be able to see into the future, right? Otherwise, how do you know I am wrong?
July 19th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Like I have said to you before, neither of us knows what is going to happen. You choose to go with the half empty approach, I guess to make it easier if they have a bad season. I choose to be patient and see the young team evolve. If they only win 2 games I will say, yeah, maybe Eric was right. I do not think that is going to happen, but I can not guarantee it. I will give you one thing, you are consistent. You have to know that teams rebuild from time to time, and they expect to lose some games in the process. I just do not get how absolute you are about losing. Like you said though, it is your opinion, and I encourage you to keep posting it. I prefer to be optimistic. I hope they surprise you, and I hope you come on this site and let everyone know if they do.
July 19th, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Hey Bigmac, I thought McNair was pretty good.
July 19th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
Thomas — further proof that you have conversations with yourself rather than reading what people post:
“C-Mon Joe the sheep and the “Dim” believe that this suppoting cast is solid and ready to compete for a playoff spot.”
I am certainly one of the people you refer to as “the sheep.” (BAAAAA). I have predicted 5 or 6 wins. Hardly competing for a playoff spot.
I guess when it gets lonely in La La Landyou debate with imaginary sheep?
July 19th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Eric — further proof of your very secure status as a Morris “hater”. Someone notes that the players are behind Morris and this is what you come up with:
“Maybe the players know if a real coach came in a lot of them would have their asses cut? Or, hold them to a professional standard instead of making a bunch of excuses for them?”
LMAO. Put down your Jon Gruden doll and think before you type.
July 19th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
“”BigMacAttack Says:
July 19th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
I grew up in Houston, and Moon sucked. “”
I wouldn’t go that far…I mean the guy is a Hall of Famer.
July 19th, 2010 at 6:01 pm
Jimbuc,
Didn’t Morris make excuses for Clayton based upon the change in coordinators? He also made excuses for the whole team.
Nothing in this post about gruden, yet you bring him up………….why all the hate man?
July 19th, 2010 at 6:24 pm
Eric — my reference to Gruden was you holding a Gruden doll. LMAO. That is not a shot at Gruden it is a shot at you. 🙂
Eric, even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that your statement was factually accurate (note you left out the part about players getting cut), that was not my point. My point was that you could not miss the opportunity to try to explain away the fact that the players are behind Morris. In other words, your love for “he who shall remain nameless” (how’s that?) is so strong and, therefore, your anger so ever-present that you cannot stand to have a positive statement made about Morris to the point that you come up with this B.S. about player only being behind him because they would be cut by other teams. ROFLMAO.
Zero credibility when you make laughable comments like that. Puts you in the same zip code with Thomas (aka Travis Bickel)
July 19th, 2010 at 6:37 pm
Jimbuc,
Well I am sure another coach would cut mr. Clayton, so he would have every reason in the world to support Rah, wouldn’t he?
Why woudn’t Josh support Rah? Hes committed to him as the franchise QB.
Same with a lot of the young guys who rah gave an opportunity to play.
Naturally, they support him, why would they want to risk a new coach? Ill bet a lot of Lions players liked and supported Rod Marinelli. Lots of “lovable” players coaches out there who failed, as Rah is failing.
Kinda like a High school teacher. Who is the best the loved teacher or the feared and respected one? I doubt Bellichick gets invited over to Turkey dinner.
July 19th, 2010 at 6:41 pm
Thats ok Thomas, Bickel ends up the hero in that movie.
July 19th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
@eric
I totally agree with you on Clayton. He’s a bum. You notice that Raheem made excuses for Clayton’s bad season in 2009 but he didn’t make any excuses for AB’s “off” 2009 season! Also, Raheem brought up how Bryant being 28 was too old, but his boy Clayton is almost the same age. I remember Raheem bringing up how Clayton’s “injuries” played a role in his performance but Antonio Bryant was injured and Raheem didn’t stick up for him. Then all the BS about Bryant’s “complaining” and “attitude” come up as a lame ass excuse for why AB was let go, but Raheem, the front office, and the fans forget about what a whiney bitch Clayton was acting like after the 2008 season when he publicly cut down Gruden and blasted him after he was fired. To me, Clayton had an attitude problem. At least AB had a reason to speak out. Besides, what AB said was nothing too.
Then Clayton gets his way and Raheem and co. were stupid enough to buy into his crap. So yeah of course Clayton loves Raheem, because he made him a rich man, and he knows that he would be lucky to make the Lions practice squad.
July 19th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
I’d really like it if someone would post a link to the quote of Raheem Morris saying that AB was too old. I haven’t seen it, I’d like to read the quote. If anyone has it, please post it up.
July 19th, 2010 at 11:49 pm
Eric, each word is just another nail. Hope you never end up on the bench Mr. Fair & Balanced. 🙂 (just kidding)
July 20th, 2010 at 12:39 am
The only article I’ve found regarding Morris talking about Bryant says the team had concerns about his knee and were “getting younger”. That doesn’t say AB is “too old”, just that the team had concerns about the knee and was getting younger. Maybe they believed the knee injury may hamper him this year and a younger, healthier WR might be a better option?
July 20th, 2010 at 9:11 am
It will be interesting to see what happens in Cincy. I hope he does well, because I liked him in Tampa, but there are plenty of big names up there these days. You al so never know how Clayton would do on a new team, he may return to his rookie form with a change of teams. Plenty of other players got better when they moved, and plenty went the other way as well.
July 20th, 2010 at 9:21 am
I have to stick up for Eric a little bit. Eric and I do not agree on much, but once in a while we find common ground. He is always respectful to the posters he is arguing with, unlike Thomas. I have yet to see Eric call anyone an “idiot” or “moron”, he just has his opinions and is consistent with them. I of course do not share his view of the team. I believe we will see progress this year and a complete turn around next year (or whenever the next season will be). He may be living in the past (Gruden) and crazy at times, but at least he is not name calling. I will say though that I find it sad that people resort to calling Morris “Radio”. I saw the movie too, and I find no humor in the comparison. The reference is in poor taste. But, he chose to be in the public eye, so he has to take the good with the bad