Josh Freeman Better Off In A West Coast Offense?
July 6th, 2010
Chucky’s former quarterback coach turned offensive coordinator Greg Olson is trying to spin the tale that the Chucky-and-duck offense is better off than throwing the ball deep, so reports Woody Cummings of the Tampa Tribune.
On passes thrown between 11 and 20 yards downfield Freeman completed just 42-percent of his throws (34 of 81), and with 12 interceptions and only three touchdowns on such throws he compiled a passer rating of just 39. Not only that, but the more Freeman aired the ball out, the more difficulty he had.
Freeman threw 34 passes between 21 and 40 yards downfield, but he completed only 11 of them for a 32.3 completion percentage. And more often than not, Freeman was intercepted on those bombs, getting picked off five times while throwing just three touchdown passes.
Now, it’s not atypical for a passer to have more difficulty completing passes deep downfield, but these stats are an indication that while Freeman’s big arm can be a big asset, his ability to steadily move the chains may be the thing that allows him and the Bucs to enjoy some success.
As Joe has pointed out in recent days, he doesn’t expect Freeman to light things up this year but certainly hopes he does.
With rookie- and a second-year wide receivers and a lethargic rushing attack, Joe has a feeling defenses will be throwing everything but the proverbial kitchen sink at Freeman this season.
July 6th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
If they don’t sign Penn, Freeman will need to get rid of the ball in a hurry…
July 6th, 2010 at 1:51 pm
his strength is throwing the ball deep aint that want moriis wanted set up the run then play action and go deep
July 6th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
a lot of the poor stats have to do with the pass ‘catchers’…
With any luck whatsoever… Someone can catch balls this year.
July 6th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Agreed,CalicoJack, have a feeling we better work on the short passes this season. Freeman can definately throw the long ball. but with a weak line, and rookie WRs, the short ball offense looks like the confidence builder early on. Won’t be long before Neo will be streching defenses, but meybe not his first full year!
July 6th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Joe, you left out the stats for the short passes, I think he had a rating of 64.7 or something like that when throwing the short West Coast Offense style pass. That was kind of an important part of the article I thought.
July 6th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
From Roy Cummings article on TBO…
I had the % and the rating mixed up. Here is what is said…
“Of the 291 throws Freeman made last year, 25 of them were thrown to a receiver waiting behind the line of scrimmage and 148 of them were thrown to a receiver running less than 10 yards downfield. Of those 173 throws Freeman completed 112 of them, including four for touchdowns, while being intercepted just once.
That works out to a completion percentage of 64.7 and a passer rating of 88 on what was more than likely a lot of traditional West Coast type of plays. And that’s a far better result than what Freeman got when he was asked to throw intermediate or deep routes.”
July 6th, 2010 at 4:53 pm
Keep in mind AB was doubled and we had no one else to throw it to.
Let’s put it all in perspective, not just want Joe or any other media outlet wants us to believe.
But hey, news right before camp…well…everyone’s starving for something..
July 6th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Another thing to point out…we didn’t really have an offensive system last year…
July 6th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
The one thing that really impresses me about Freeman is his pocket presence. This is something that is absolutely impossible to teach! You either have it or you don’t. The guy can feel pressure no matter where it is coming from. QB’s can practice and get more accurate or speed up their release, but QB’s who don’t have pocket presence don’t last in the NFL.
July 6th, 2010 at 9:12 pm
Sign Flozell Adams so we have some insurance if the Penn situation doesn’t get better!!!!!
July 6th, 2010 at 10:28 pm
Freeman would really benefit from the West Coast…… it’s a take what the defense gives you offense. The thing is, Freeman ALSO has the strength and size to go deep at times…. this is something the defense can’t ignore, so long as Freeman goes down field from time to time. But more often than not, he should take what’s there, and get his offense in a better position, 2nd and 3rd and shorts.
Even Jeff Garcia was able to hit Galloway down field every so often. You know what, I really think that Freeman could have learned a lot from Garcia. Garcia had a lot of heart, was mobile and had great vision. He really had an excellent command of the West Coast Offense. The only knock on Garcia was he wasn’t quite big enough to be an NFL QB that could beat the blitzes with his arm strength. Garcia was short and didn’t have the muscle to throw off his back foot. Something Josh has all of. If Josh could have taken what vision and heart Garcia had, the ability to convert consistently on 3rd downs, if Freeman could have taken those traits from Garcia, Freeman would be a scary force. Freeman lacks good vision and the aptitude to convert on 3rd down, or check down as necessary.
Hopefully Freeman can step up his vision, focus and decision making. Otherwise, it’s gonna suck watching the second coming of Josh Campbell.
July 6th, 2010 at 10:49 pm
LOL. The knock on Garcia was that he did not stay within the offense. Hr freelanced. As for throwing to Galloway. he thre pop flys that Galloway had to run back to. HE NEVER PLAYED A MEANINGFUL DOWN AGAIN and he was Lruden’s choice for the following year. LMAO
July 6th, 2010 at 11:24 pm
Garcia was a winner. No Buc fan should be able to seriously deny that.
How could you hate a guy so much who won so many games for Tampa?
How can you hate a coach so much who won more games, more playoffs, more division titles, more NFC Championships and more Super Bowls than any other coach in Tampa Bay Buccaneer’s history?
It makes no sense.
Yet you reinforce a guy who threw 18 Interceptions like he is the second coming. You reinforce ALL of Raheem Morris’ follys as if they never existed. And you apologize for any and every move the Glazer’s make as if they are somehow making crystal clear decisions to net us a division champion who will run deep into the playoffs year in and year out.
It’s pretty simple JimboBuccaroo…. YOU ARE DELUSIONAL.
July 6th, 2010 at 11:25 pm
Garcia had some good success throwing to Galloway and AB.
He was very adept at sidestepping the pass rush.
Jimbuc, what is your source that Gruden had committed to Garcia as the starter for the 09 season? I find that difficult to believe given Gruden’s proclivity for competition at that position.
July 6th, 2010 at 11:36 pm
I agree with pretty much everything RahDom and Eric said.
And another thing, it really didn’t make any sense when Raheem brought sluggo here. If Freeman wasn’t gonna be ready, why didn’t they just re-sign Garcia for another year and let him keep the job until Freeman was ready??? We could’ve been a lot better in 09 if that had happened. Why did Garcia’s “age” even have to be an issue?? It would only be for a year or so and he’s a 100 times better than leftwich. He was accurate, didn’t turn the ball over, and could win games. Another stupid move by Dummynick and Raheem.
July 6th, 2010 at 11:53 pm
For the record, Garcia made the pro bowl in 07 with a 94.5 rating.
25 td vs 10 int’s during his tenure here.
Freeman should do so well……………………and nobody in the NFC South was laughing.
July 7th, 2010 at 7:45 am
Garcia was a winner, love the guy! Terry Bradshaw was also a winner, and about the same age( ah, close enuff), I heard Gruden was negoticiating with him, also! Isn’t the idea to have a Qb here for 8 to 10 years, like Brady, Manning,Rivers, etc., so you build a championship team around him? Aren’t the teams with the Great young QBs the ones that are repeatedly in the Playoffs/Superbowls? Isn’t being in last place every other year a sign that your team is a pretender, not a contender? Shouldn’t you at least have a CHANCE ta win once you get to the playoffs, instead of looking so horribly overmatched that it’s obvious you don’t belong there? Was anyone really happy winning in the losing bracket, then getting embarrassed in the playoffs, knowing we would finish in last place again the next season? Really, struggling along, with no hope for really winning anything, without any young players progressing to improve us each year, THAT was what we were happy with?
July 7th, 2010 at 7:59 am
“…instead of looking so horribly overmatched that it’s obvious you don’t belong there?”
Yeah like the Buccaneers of now! Tampa doesn’t even belong in the NFL with the crap they throw on the field.
EXACTLY.
July 7th, 2010 at 8:39 am
RahDom, as ussual, the point didn’t sink thru that thick concrete you call a head. I don’t know which season you watched, but we Were competitive in 7 of 9 games that Freeman started. While we sucked mercilessly in the first 7 games, we actually looked like we could win 7 of the last nine. And he’s the point( I’ll go slow, so you can digest), Freeman will IMPROVE. The defense, with Raheem coaching, Will IMPROVE. Now that Olsen can teach his Offense all off season, the Offense should IMPROVE. The rookie DTs and WRs should be an improvement over last year, and will only IMPROVE with time. The OL and DL, learning the system they will use all year, and not being asked to either gain or lose weight, will improve. Most importantly, with a year under his belt, Morris will IMPROVE. So will improve dramatically, some nit enough, and we’ll see changes. Either way, this team is young, and can IMPROVE. It’s still thin as far as depth goes, injuries could set us back quick, but it’s a team on the rise. The last years here were pathetic. Team fulla all guys, that could only DECLINE. No FUTURE, no CHANCE to win a title. No young players to get excited about. Mainly- NO EXCITEMENT about the team- just sloshing thru the mud, plowing the fields of mediocrity. That your idea of ” the good ole days”, the go follow Gruden were ever he eventually ends up! I don’t blame the players for laying down on him after Monte left. And I for one can’t wait to see how much impact these young guys bring to the team. I also am excited to see Raheem’s mutated Tampa 2 defense- much more aggressive! And Olsen’s hybrid west coast offense also looks like it has a real aggressive element to it! Is it all gonna work? I don’t know, but at least this team CAN improve
July 7th, 2010 at 9:10 am
Patrick, Eric, and Dumdum…Please, cam we at l;east agree that Gruden is no longer here? I agree that Gruden was a good coach, and he won our Super Bowl for us. I also believe that Dungy would have been the all time winning coach for TB if he had been given another year or two…percentage wise I would bet that Dungy is higher. BUT, Dungy is not here either. All of this crap you guys are spewing is not relevent to this season. I agree that Garcia was a winner, I liked him and enjoyed his wife’s segment on TV each Sunday morning…but guess what, garcia is not here, so who cares. Garcia has never been none as a guy that teaches the young QBs either. You also can not teach heart and vision, you either have it or you do not. We will see if Josh has it as time progresses.
July 7th, 2010 at 9:22 am
Oh, and here are the stats from the last two coaches…I think we should give Raheem some time.
Gruden – 57 – 55 = 50.8%
Dungy – 54 – 42 – 56.25%
See, Gruden had one more season than Dungy, so it is easy to see if they had the same number of seasons, Dungy would have been the all time winner, but like I said…it does not matter right now since niether of them are here.
July 7th, 2010 at 10:17 am
When were we “embarrassed in the playoffs” again?
Talk about twisting yourself in a knot making 3-13 look good. And, since we are playing the last place schedule this year, we ought to be in the playoff hunt, right?
Of course, when that doesn’t happen more excusses and revision will be necessary. I suppose we are playing horse shoes and hand grenades………..
Pathetic!
July 7th, 2010 at 11:09 am
@ Eric
“When were we “embarrassed in the playoffs” again?
Talk about twisting yourself in a knot making 3-13 look good. ”
I Know bud…. I KNOW.
Facts are NOT on CappyTim’s side, as usual.
July 7th, 2010 at 11:47 am
And as usual, the two of you( where’s Thomas?) ignore anything positive about the Bucs, preferring to stay in your own little delusional, hate filled world. Just keep staring at your “Gruden gone wild “poster. The season will be here soon enough.
July 7th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
3-13 Timmy… 3 AND 13.
July 7th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
Ok, so nobody likes losing. We get that. But I’m curious…. who deserves more time to improve? A 5th year coach that was 4-12 two years ago, and 5-11 this year, and the team has gotten worse statistically? Or a rookie that has only had one year to start rebuilding a team that had very few young, up and coming stars?
Oh yeah, the 5th year coach got a 6th year, and a 7th…
Morris has only had one year as head coach, mistakes were made, that’s understood and not defended or argued. But, he should get better at his job with experience, and he has one year experience now. If he learned from year one and gets better, I’d really hate to suffer the pains of year one, only to let another team hire him if he turns out pretty good because we were impatient with him.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:56 am
“I’d really hate to suffer the pains of year one, only to let another team hire him if he turns out pretty good ”
That statement is more applicable to Jon Gruden than Raheem Morris.
AND THAT’S THE POINT!
July 8th, 2010 at 9:05 am
So while there is a HIGH likelyhood that Gruden will win again and be in the playoffs again…. there is a LOW probability that Raheem will ever make it.
Basically, you Gruden haters are praying that Gruden fails with his next team… WISHING he does bad just to prove your silly position in why you chased him away.
But deep down, you are scared that he will come back onthe scene and win again only to make guys like you look so foolish for wasting years bashing Jon Gruden.
Raheem has a LONG, LONG way to go to even come close to Gruden or Dungy.
You are PAYING for, no Subsidizing this Glazer experiment through your ticket purchases. Instead of paying for a product that is worth while. At least if the Glazer boys TRIED and got a REAL coach, rather than force the fans to suffer through this Raheem experiment, then buying tickets would be easier to swallow.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:07 am
Actually RAHDOM what makes you think it is highly probable that gruden makes it with another team? Name me one head coach that won the Super Bowl with two different teams. You also have no basis for Raheem not turming out to be good, just like there is no basis for him turning out great. Even the Tuna had bad decisions as a rookie HC. Bellechick was even questioned about bad decisions last year (going for it on fourth). Go back and see his rookie year as well, traded his starting QB with no back up plan. You, Eric, and Pat really should go with the team of the moment. Even the Colts and Pats have had rebuilding periods. Iknow, I know, fans should be able to question the team, and I agree, but geez can’t you jokers give the gruden thing a rest for a while. He is in the booth, and I for one think he is the best thing that ever happened to MNF.