Don’t Expect A Lot From GMC, Price This Season
July 8th, 2010
Roy Miller had what Pat Kirwan of Sirius NFL Radio deems a good year last season for a rookie defensive tackle.
In recent days Joe brought you all sorts of information from Pat Kirwan who indirectly cautioned Bucs fans to have patience with quarterback Josh Freeman.
Kirwan also had the same advice for Bucs fans with the development of rookie defensive tackles, namely Gerald McCoy and Brian Price.
Like he did with quarterbacks, Kirwan, an on-air personality for Sirius NFL Radio and a columnist for NFL.com, went back a few years to study how rookie defensive tackles measured up.
The numbers weren’t pretty. In short, Bucs fans should have modest goals for GMC and Price.
“I’ve always said, 30 tackles and three sacks are nice numbers for a rookie defensive tackle,” Kirwan told his radio audience last week.
That’s not exactly All Pro numbers.
Part of this is, Kirwan noted, rookie defensive tackles are going up against men. While in college, they often used their sheer physical abilities to get past lesser offensive linemen, in some cases fresh out of high school.
It’s a world of difference overpowering a 19-year old kid still struggling with acne and trying to do the same against a 29-year old man in the prime of his physical condition.
For evidence of how rookie defensive tackles struggled, Joe only needed to do a little research from last year.
B.J. Raji (Packers), Peria Jerry (Falcons) and Ziggy Hood (Steelers) were all first round draft picks in 2009.
Raji played in 14 games, started one, had 25 combined tackles and one sack. Jerry, riddled with injuries, played in just two games with one tackle and one assist. Hood played in 16 games, had eight tackles and one assist.
By comparison, Bucs rookie defensive tackle Roy Miller, drafted in the third round, had what Kirwan would describe as a good year. He had 33 tackles and two sacks playing in 15 games.
Based on this information, while Joe doesn’t expect GMC or Price to light things up this year, Joe is sort of expecting Miller to continue to be a beacon of light on what was a dark area of the defense.
July 8th, 2010 at 12:10 pm
30 tackles 5 sacks for Mccoy would not be bad the thing I really saw in him was he was always in the backfield on runnig plays. Which will help The Bucs stop the run. Think Rookie DT’s will help the run alot but will not be as efective as people think against the Pass. Because Mccoy for sure will be double maybe tripled team being the fact our DE’s strike no fear in nobody
July 8th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
JOE
“Raji played in 14 games, started one, had 25 combined tackles and one sack. Jerry, riddled with injuries, played in just two games with one tackle and one assist. Hood played in 16 games, had eight tackles and one assist.”
So wouldn’t you say Roy Miller was a great pick-up in the 3rd round? If you ask me I think he is going to develop into one of the more dominant DTs in the NFL.
July 8th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
Sooner or later, a player break trends. McCoy is physically talented and apparently very smart (already making line calls). Logic would have you think Miller will be better this year and if McCoy is as talented as we hope and think, that in turn makes other players around him that much better.
We’ll definitely know more when the pads come on.
July 8th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
MVPFreeman:
Roy Miller was a fine pickup in the third round (even wrote as much at the time he was selected) and Joe believes he wrote that in the post. Looking forward to his progression this year.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
I think and hope Miller/Price/McCoy can combine for 100 tackles and 15 sacks this year. If they can, it will be condidered by me to have been a great step forward. More important than stats though is the ability to stop the run and get pressure. I’m hoping by mid season this trio can be very good at both.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
TJ: I hope your right. I hope McCoy is double teamed. This will allow Miller/Price, White, and Moore to have one on one match ups all year.
July 8th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Great point. McCoy and Price both use quickness alotinstead of just trying to overpower so it should help them. The bottom line, though, is that this team is relying on A LOT of young players (rookies and second eyar guys). They are another year away (hopefully that is all) and the fans need to be supportive and patient.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
Good points, but also an example of how stats are misleading. Take Raji in Green Bay. Raji did not put up big numbers in 2009 but the team did, going from 28 sacks in 2008 to 37 in 2009. I think the defense went from the 20s to the 12th ranked defense. Raji was not the only reason, but it is important to remember that football is a team sport. A good players impact is more than individual stats.
McCoy and Price may not put up huge numbers individually, but their presence should improve the defense for a number of reasons, not the least of which being that teams will have to account for them. if they improve the run defense — as one would think that three rotating young DTs should do — there will be more chancces for sacks. So make no mistake about, McCoy and Price might not put up huge stats, but I am guessing that White and Moore get more sack and the D improves overall. There’s a reason these guys were premium picks.
July 8th, 2010 at 3:52 pm
I think McCoy and Price will improve our defense significantly in 2010.
Here are Chris Hovan’s and Ryan Sim’s stats from 2009:
Sims: 26 Tackles, 0.5 sacks.
Sims: 25 Tackles, 1 sack
Those are pretty bad and you can’t really get any worse than that. McCoy and Price will be far better than Hovan and Sims next year, even though they’re only in their rookie seasons. Even as rookies, I can’t see how they would be as bad as Hovan and Sims in 09.
Our line looks good. Stylez is a good defensive end and I think he’s underrated. McCoy and Price will help. But we still need another defensive end on the other side. They should look into signing Bobby McCray who was recently with the Saints. He’s had a solid career, is only 28, and would be an upgrade to what we currrently have. I’m sorry, but I don’t think they should put so much hope into Tim Crowder and Kyle Moore. Remember, Tim Crowder was a 2nd round pick by the Broncos in 2007. The Broncos released him and we picked him up in the middle of the season last year. He obviously didn’t live up to expectations in Denver. As far as I’m concerned, he’s a bust. As for Kyle Moore, he didn’t do anything last year and hasn’t proven anything.
July 8th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
These guys are rookies, so there is a wide range of possibilities.
Could be busts and never play well.
Could be average.
Could be Really good.
Unlikely that the answers will be revealed in 2010. If they show at least signs of what might be, fans will be encouraged.
Hopefully Coach Cowher can bring them around in 2011.
July 8th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
Eric I would love to ger Cowehr but he would switch us to 3-4 not sure if are Defense is suited to play a 3-4 but you never know. Morris will be around I think If he gets to 6 wins which is very very acceptable i fully excpect ot be 2-1 or 3-0 first 3 games. Morris is cheap and he is part of the youth movement the Glaziers love that
July 8th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
You guys all twist stats to suit your arguments.
For example, Both Hovan and Sims had 33 total tackles compared to Miller’s 33 total tackles. I recall one of Miller’s sacks being from the qb falling down and Miller being the nearest player to the qb when the play was whistled dead.
Miller was not great last year, in fact he was no better than Hovan and Sims. Early on, Mccoy and Price will NOT be better than Hovan and Sims – those guys are 30 and 31 with approx 10 years of productive experience in the league.
Nobody knows yet what effect what these guys will have, to say that their “presence” will have an impact is ridiculous unless you mean a negative impact. They are rookies: I believe that both Sims and Hovan were 1st round picks also.
This team is not improved by injecting rookie starters on the D-Line, I dont care who they are. Anyone in the league will tell you that, they may be better three years down the road but in the first year or two it is not disputible that these players will struggle.
July 8th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
If Cowher came to Tampa, I don’t really see how he could get rid of the Tampa 2. I know that in the past, he ran a 3-4 defense with the Steelers, but he has to know how important the Tampa 2 has been in…….um…. TAMPA. If he came here, kept Morris as the defensive cordinator, and kept the Tampa 2, I’d be all for it. I don’t know how anyone could not accept that scenario.
July 8th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Cowher can run whatever defense he chooses.
He is a credible head coach everyone could get behind. Perfect hard nosed coach which this City would embrace.
I could see billboards all over town with just a big chin on them.
If the Glazer’s wanna win, and their “money is no issue” proclamations are true, it shall come to pass.
July 8th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
If Jimbuc has testicles I bet even he would trade them for Cowher so we can end this embarrassment called the Rah show.
Cowher can run anything he wants. Tomlin was a Tampa 2 guy who embraced the 3-4. It doesnt matter, Cowher wins. The Tampa 2 is being exposed more and more hence the reason Rah tried shift away from it with Bates.
I would have been fine with Rah as D Coordinator previously but after watching him as a HC I dont think I could stomach it knowing how much of a bafoon he really is. Better off that the team wash its hands of this disaster completely.
July 8th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
@ Thomas I remember that game Miller got a sack it was aginst the Packers, who had a horriable O-line at the time. And those stats are amazing cause now we know why that we took two Dt’s first two picks. I think we are in serious rebulding mode but 6 wins are still possible with this weak scheudle. Optimism is high at one Buccaneers place but thanks thomas cause I like stats to see what you have done. so Clayton. Kyle Moore, Derek Ward, Sorry Ronde Barber (last year), RUdd get some TFL
July 8th, 2010 at 5:14 pm
Eric and Thomas( the Gruden twins),
Again you to deploying your lack of football knowledge, and yet another huge mancrush in the making. Sad! Cowher has ran one offense and one defense his entire career, and they both are built on the same concept- Power football. Huge linemen, big backs, huge linebackers. Overpower and conquer! I love that style! Except . . WE PLAY FOOTBALL IN TAMPA!! You know, land of the 120* field temperatures!! In when we aren’t in Tampa, we play in the NFC SOUTH! Also friggin hot! Now, march out yer big, hulking Linemen and linebackers, and tell’em ta run full out for a whole game! Yeah, good luck! Tampa has made a living off letting teams like that wear down, then beating them in the 4th quarter! Because . . THEIR FAT ASSES ARE EXHAUSTED!! The Tampa 2 is built on speed, the west coast offense is built on speed. Bedsides it’s to hot here for the Jumbo boys ta play! Cowher is a great coach at what he does, an in snowy Pittsburgh, getting ground inta the snow makes a long day! But, to be sucessful in the NFL, you use schemes that are effective where you play. You draft players that fit those schemed(speed,baby!). And you hire Coaches whose expertise will work well in your environment. A buncha big heavyweights, sweating their butts off, panting in 100* heat ain’t it! If Morris isn’t the man for the job here, the Glazers will be looking at a Kiffin(Lane), to continue the legacy of the legendary Tampa Defense!
July 8th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
Bill Cowher………………
Lane Kiffin………………
Explains a lot Captain, explains a lot.
July 8th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Before Monte left for Tennessee, they should’ve made one last attempt and offered him a big time contract for him to be the head coach!!!! I think he would’ve taken it and he could’ve brought his son down with him. I think Monte would’ve done a great job and he was CERTAINLY qualified and experienced.
July 8th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
Thomas — you are a completeddufus who always comes in spouting garbage with no facts. I just gave an actual example of a rookie having an impact: Raji. He was not the sole reason for the defensive improvement but neither did his stats tell the true story. That’s the simple point.
However, to actually suggest, as you do, that the trio of McCoy and Price and Miller will HURT the team as compared to Hovan and Sims is laughable. You have said too many stupid things on here to catalog but this is one of the stupidest:
“to say that their “presence” will have an impact is ridiculous unless you mean a negative impact.”
Just flat out DUMB. No other way to put it. Sorry. Unless it is that you are so blinded by hate that you are compelled to stay stupid stuff.
OF COURSE THEIR PRESENCE WILL HAVE AN IMPACT. OF COURSE IT WILL BE A POSITIVE IMPACT. To start with, Miller’s stats were equal or better than either Hovan or Sims last year. Now we are adding McCoy and Price. That is three young talented guys rotating versus Hovan, who would not be on a team but for the worst team in football, and Sims, who will not be in the league much longer.
C’mon Thomas, get a freaking life.
July 8th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Jimbuc,
I am certain that the Raiders “thought” that Jamarcus Russel would have a positive impact.
He was a “premium pick”, along with man, many other first and second round busts over the years.
Ain’t no “of course” in pro football, till the pads are put in place on Sundays.
Time will tell, but can’t tell now.
July 8th, 2010 at 6:00 pm
“I am certain that the Raiders “thought” that Jamarcus Russel would have a positive impact.”
WEAK argument. You can do better than that Eric.
July 8th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Patrick:
Monte Kiffin was gone. Al Davis damned near bought out his contract the year before he left because Monte wanted to coach with his son. He even told the Bucs in September that he was going to leave at season’s end.
July 8th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
Cowher was a good coach, in Pittsburgh. Who’s to say that he would be a good coach here? What if he went 2-14 his first season?
Oh Yeah!! he gets a pass because of what he did “before”! I can understand being upset about having a coach with little or no Head Coaching Experience.
But to think that another “good” coach can come in and preform above and beyond anyone else is Ludicrous. It might happen and it might not!
Would all of the BBC club members give Cowher or any other “good” coach time they are not allowing the current Coach and GM to work with??
Strange but i doubt it!!!
I think Miller McCoy Price will be a tough trio of DT’s for opponents
to game plan for, not as much this year but soon it will be tough to game plan against these guys and not having them game planed will cost teams wins.
July 8th, 2010 at 7:10 pm
Capt Dim says: we are displaying our lack of football knowledge then makes this brilliant statement “when we aren’t in Tampa, we play in the NFC SOUTH! Also friggin hot!” Boy it sure is scorching in the domes in Atlanta and New Orleans.
@Jimbuc: Being called stupid a complete idiot dolt is fine by me. You tried to make an argument that Raji was effective b/c the Packers sack numbers went up even though Raji’s number sucked. You completely ignored, or intentionally omitted, the fact that the Packers other first round pick was pass-rusher Clay Matthews Jr who had 10 sacks himself.
To sum up your foolish position: you tried to say that the addition of a statistically ineffective part-time starter DT had more to do with the teams sack total going up 9 sacks than the rookie pass-rusher who actually added 10 new sacks to the defense.
Nobody with a brain would argue that Raji had more to do with the sack increases and defensive improvement than Matthews. Any legit comments on this.
July 8th, 2010 at 7:12 pm
Jimbuc: you should be ashamed and embarrassed of that prior comment but that assumes that you are smart enough to know when to feel that way.
July 8th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
BTW- Raji only started one game last year, missed three do to injury – but his “presence” was the reason the team went up 9 sacks and improved defensively.
Go ahead and read articles on the internet about how fans and media in and around Green Bay viewed his impact – fair to say not the same as Jimbuc.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:02 pm
@RustyRhino
You said:
Oh Yeah!! he gets a pass because of what he did “before”! I can understand being upset about having a coach with little or no Head Coaching Experience.
But to think that another “good” coach can come in and preform above and beyond anyone else is Ludicrous. It might happen and it might not!
RustyRhino, it’s called being qualified and proven. No, duh. There’s never a 100% guarantee that things will work out. If Vince Lombardi was still alive and he was available to coach, you would say the same thing about him. If Rah Rah announced tomorrow that Peyton Manning was our starting QB, you’d say the same thing.
That was a terrible comment. What people have done “before”, does matter when you look for a head coach. If you had a heart attack and needed to go to the emergency room, would you want a guy that just finished high school taking care of you or an experienced guy that graduated from both college and med school? Cowher doesn’t get a “pass” just because of what he did before. The fans would just have more confidence and feel better about the way things are being run, because they know Cowher has made things good in the past with other teams. Meanwhile, Raheem hasn’t proven anything and it didn’t surprise me at all the way he performed last year and the way he’s performing now.
“But to think that another “good” coach can come in and preform above and beyond anyone else is Ludicrous. It might happen and it might not!”
So Cowher doesn’t have a good chance of perfoming “above and beyond” Raheem?
Well, I believe anyone who thinks “Raheem Morris” can come in and perform “above and beyond anyone else” is Ludicrous. It might happen and it might not!
Yeah, Raheem is capable of coming in and performing “above and beyond” Bill Parcells, Don Shula, or Vince Lombardi.
July 8th, 2010 at 8:13 pm
BTW I forgot:
@RustyRhino
Cowher was a good coach, in Pittsburgh. Who’s to say that he would be a good coach here? What if he went 2-14 his first season?
You think that coaches can’t have success with 2 different teams?? You’re wrong. Bill Parcells had successful tenures with the Jets, Giants, Patriots, Cowboys, and made the Super bowl with both the Giants and Patriots.
Also, Cowher went 11-5 his first season in 1992 after taking over a 7-9 team. Raheem went 3-13 his first season after taking over a 9-7 team. Big difference.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
Eric — Jamarcus Russell? That does not even merit a response.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
OK, so I’m late to the party here.
Just a couple thoughts. Joe, in your article:
“I’ve always said, 30 tackles and three sacks are nice numbers for a rookie defensive tackle,” Kirwan told his radio audience last week.
That’s not exactly All Pro numbers.
That’s not entirely true Joe. I was looking at stats of DT/NT players in the Pro Bowl since 2000.
2000 – Sam Adams, BAL, 23 tackles 2 sacks
Luther Ellis, DET, 23 tackles, 3 sacks
2001 – Sam Adams, BUF, 18 tackles, 2 sacks, PFW 1st team All NFL
Ted Washington, CHI, 26 tkl, 1.5 sacks, AP and SN 1st team All NFL
2002 – Tim Bowens, MIA, 24 tackles, 0 sacks
Bryant Young, SF, 28 tackles, 2 sacks
2003 – Casey Hampton, PIT, 27 tkl, 1 sack
2004 – Sam Adams, BUF, 26 tackles, 5 sacks
2005 – Marcus Stroud, JAX, 32 tackles, 1 sack, SN 1st team All NFL
La’Roi Glover, DAL, 23 tackles, 3 sacks
Casey Hampton, PIT, 25 tkl, 0 sacks
Tommie Harris, CHI, 29 tkl, 3 sacks, AP 2nd team All NFL
Etc, etc… the list goes on. That’s from Pro-Football-Reference.com, and I haven’t verified the stats against NFL.com, but it seems All-Pro is a popularity contest anyway. Not only that, stats are deceiving in that some of these guys are run stuffers. Casey Hampton is the NT of a 3-4 defense and his job is to tie up two or three defenders every play to allow teammates to make tackles and get sacks. This is similar to Green Bay last year switching to the 3-4, inserting Raji as a part time player. Did he make an impact? Sure he did, 25 tackles and a sack are comparable to Hampton’s Pro Bowl year stats, and that was not even as a starter.
Our rookies will have an impact. A positive impact. Will we become a top 5 defense this year? Probably not. But they will open lanes for LBs to make tackles and get sacks on blitzes. They will take on double teams that allow Stylez to get sacks. Will they struggle? Probably at times, but rookie DT’s aren’t Pro Bowl or All-Pro because it’s a popularity contest and they haven’t been around long enough to be that popular.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
correction: I meant Casey Hampton’s job is to tie up 2 or 3 O-linemen, not defenders…
July 8th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
Thomas: I am going to point out how dumb you are with your own words. This is what you said in response to my comment about Raji:
“You tried to make an argument that Raji was effective b/c the Packers sack numbers went up even though Raji’s number sucked. You completely ignored, or intentionally omitted, the fact that the Packers other first round pick was pass-rusher Clay Matthews Jr who had 10 sacks himself.
To sum up your foolish position: you tried to say that the addition of a statistically ineffective part-time starter DT had more to do with the teams sack total going up 9 sacks than the rookie pass-rusher who actually added 10 new sacks to the defense.
Nobody with a brain would argue that Raji had more to do with the sack increases and defensive improvement than Matthews”
Thomas: your problem? I did not say any of the things you say I said. LOL. You cannot read or you make up stuff just to save yourself from your own stupid remarks. This is what I actually said:
“Take Raji in Green Bay. Raji did not put up big numbers in 2009 but the team did, going from 28 sacks in 2008 to 37 in 2009. I think the defense went from the 20s to the 12th ranked defense. Raji was not the only reason”
“RAJI WAS NOT THE ONLY REASON.” You conveniently ignored that part so you could rescue yourself from your stupid comment thta the Bucs would be WORSE due to the addition of McCoy Price and Miller (over Hovan/Sims). In fact, you actually said I compared Raji to a person that is not even in my comments? What a joke you are.
Your B.S. is totally transparent. My point was only that the addition of a good player has to be measured by more than his INDIVIDUAL stats because it is a team sport. Anytime one position is improved, other positions also benefit. Dope.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
I think alot of people forget that Cowher had one of the best D-Coordinators of all time running his defense for him, and still in a stretch of 15 years he only won one Super Bowl. The fact that Tomlin has won one with that same team only helps to reinforce that it wasn’t Cowher that made that team click, it was and still is, Dick LeBeau. Besides that, no coach has ever won the Super Bowl with more than one team.
Now as far as our rookie DT’s go, they don’t have to put up Hall of Fame numbers this year to make this defense better. They need to put somewhat consistent pressure on the QB and not get driven 5 yards deep when they get double teamed and they will have already surpassed what Sims and Hovan did last year. Ryan Sims playing the 3-Technique was one of the most painful things I had seen in quite some time and Chris Hovan had nothing left in the tank midway through the season.
The one thing that concerns me about this season with the two rookies is that rookie wall that they’ll hit around week 11 or 12. Hopefully the three young guys can rotate enough to keep them all fresh for later in the season.
Either way, at least there’s upside with the young guys, with Sims and Hovan you know all your going to get is extreme mediocrity at best. Future stars or busts, either way at least it will be better than watching hasbeens’ and neverwas’ fade into the mist.
July 8th, 2010 at 9:57 pm
Even Joe had it here… Hovan isn’t even walking right anymore.
https://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=30513
I don’t see how a healthy young DT that can still walk right could be a bad choice.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:01 pm
Again the all knowing @$$holes and their stupid predictions are all that we have right now. I want some football, and none of those jerks, not one, know what the hell they’re talking about, because on a given day anything can happen, anyone can be great, and the greatest can go down in flames. We’ll see what happens when the games start. My expectations are high for GMC, and that he will make the rest of the team better …. if they all stay healthy and make it on to the field. But I’m sick and tired of people telling us not too expect much, or that we’re ranked 30’th at this or that. F@@@off and kiss my @$$ Kirwan, Dukes & especially Marshall Faulk. It’s time for some new faces on the NFL Channel, the rest are getting stale and so are their endless discussions about the Cowboys and other teams that I don’t give a hoot about. Let’s play some ball. Kirwan can bite me.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:05 pm
Joe…. a little more research would have shown that Ziggy Hood isn’t playing NT for the Steelers, he’s been moved out to DE. Not that his stats are great for DE, but he was a DT playing DE in a 3-4 system. We can throw out his stats and Jerry’s (he tore his ACL in game 2). That leaves Raji. And, whether or not Raji had any impact or not, the Packers defense improved quite a bit last year.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:30 pm
Comparing any defensive lineman in a 3-4 system to a 3-Tech in a Tampa 2 is idiotic. May as well try to compare men to women. Both comparisons are worlds apart.
July 8th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
Jimbuc,
Would you have preferred Ryan Leaf?
Aint no guarantees in this biz.
But, if i was a betting man (and I am), i would agree that McCoy and Price improve the line play, over time.
But i also believe they could both suck, which u don’t accept.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:24 pm
The funniest thing to me is that none of us can read, or at least during a debate, but everyone types about 90 words per minute. And Eric is Lawyer no less. But, but, but, I think Eric has his paralegal/secretary type his comments. He yells them to her in the other room, she edits them while she types them. He tries to read it after it’s posted, but since he can’t read like the rest of us, he yells at her some more. And so continues the vicious cycle.
July 8th, 2010 at 11:42 pm
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/08/dbrickashaws-real-deal-one-year-53225-million/
Joe, you may want to link this one from Florio.
July 9th, 2010 at 12:02 am
BigMacAttack:
To be honest, Joe’s not lying awake at night worried about what the Jets will do. Talk of numbers and salaries bores Joe, even in this slow period of NFL news prior to the start of NFL training camps.
Simply put, the Jets are trying to win a Super Bowl this year. The Bucs are not.
July 9th, 2010 at 12:12 am
@JimBuc: This is what I actually said: “Take Raji in Green Bay. Raji did not put up big numbers in 2009 but the team did, going from 28 sacks in 2008 to 37 in 2009. I think the defense went from the 20s to the 12th ranked defense. Raji was not the only reason”
Then why the hell did you bring up Raji in the first place if it wasn’t to make a point???!!! It’s like saying, “take Raji as an example of the point I’m trying to make”, but then saying later, “nevermind”! GOOD GRIEF!
July 9th, 2010 at 12:18 am
“Simply put, the Jets are trying to win a Super Bowl this year. The Bucs are not.”
The Bucs are trying to win 6 games to save The Dream. I think it’s time for ZeroExpections to chime in.
July 9th, 2010 at 8:14 am
Louie — you must also have a reading problem. I did not bring up Raji, Joe brought up Raji:
“For evidence of how rookie defensive tackles struggled, Joe only needed to do a little research from last year.
B.J. Raji (Packers), Peria Jerry (Falcons) and Ziggy Hood (Steelers) were all first round draft picks in 2009.
Raji played in 14 games, started one, had 25 combined tackles and one sack. Jerry, riddled with injuries, played in just two games with one tackle and one assist”
Louie –Jerry was an exceptional case due to injuries, so I just commented on Raji. Man, you guys are so angry that you run around like chickens with your head cut off. I only made a very simple — and undeniable — point: a good player has more value to a TEAM than INDIVIDUAL STATS.
Louie — “GOOD GRIEF” right back at you. Maybe time for some reading lessons. Perhaps you and Thomas could get a group discount.
July 9th, 2010 at 8:16 am
eric — how about Matt Ryan?
July 9th, 2010 at 8:43 am
Sorry Joe, I was only making reference to Donald Penn, and the fact the Big Man in NY didn’t actually get the big bucks guarantee as first reported, but what sounds like a stipulated contract that could work for Penn, in a lessor overall amount.
July 9th, 2010 at 8:46 am
BigMAcAttack:
Yeah, I got that after I read Florio’s article that you linked.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:35 am
BigMac…. that type of contract won’t work for Penn, as he doesn’t actually have a contract to extend. The other aspects could be negotiated into a new contract, but the team probably won’t offer such a contract until they have to. Penn is restricted and not going anywhere unless he signs the tender (can’t trade guys not under contract). He’ll be a Buc this year, it’s just a matter of when.
July 9th, 2010 at 12:42 pm
@ Patrick
All i am saying is what if he stinks up the place 4-12 3-13 or worse? Will his champions still be holding the outhouse door for him? or will they be shoving him under it?
As some see it we have no coach here as of now & no GM no defense no offense, what would you see if say next year Cowher becomes the coach? A new coaching staff a new offense new defense(we saw how well that went with Bates) and if by chance Cowher or “any real coach” has a unsuccessful season?? Will you be upset, wanting to hang him on everything he says? (not you in-particular)
Even the “good ” coaches have trouble in their first season. Some sure are out the door like gangbusters, but not everyone does that. So we are to just wish for another “good” coach to come in and start the process all over?
I am not totally foolish enough to believe that coach Morris is the best NFL coach ever but i do think he has the teams pulse, from what we have heard from the players Bruised chests and all, he has them motivated to play to win, no quit in any of them. and with the old slow team he inherited, he is adding speed and youth and enthusiasm. And to me this is what we have needed since 2003 we did not have the draft picks to supply our depleted stables, but we did win the Super Bowl!!!!!
If coach morris goes again 3-4 wins then i will be like you wanting another coach, Marty ball sounds good to me..
But i think we putting the pieces in place and are refilling our stable with young although unproven talent. So i will be drinking the Kool-aid supporting the team. Until that day comes and we have another coach, Yes even Cowher and i will be his supporter as well if it happens. Because i am a fan of the Buccaneers like you and i support the team my glass is half-full not half empty.
July 9th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
If you don’t see last year as an unusual year, then you’re not operating with a full deck. Pretty hard to judge anyone — player, coach or even GM — based SOLELY on last year. Come on now.
July 9th, 2010 at 6:02 pm
BamBam, are you a lawyer? Wait a minute, better yet, do you want to be my lawyer?
It’s just that the first report was “Dbrick was getting all this and that, $34MM guaranteed” which was all over the blogs. Florio wrote that he got a copy of the contract and wasn’t anything like first reported, and StPeteTimes immediately tried to stoke the Penn fire with somewhat false information. Steve White has the same thing posted on his blog too.
July 9th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
No comment
July 10th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
RustyRhino, another good and accurate post where ! Me, I’m over trying ta talk reasonably to a bunch of block headed, I love with Gruden, idiots. They don’t listen anyway, too busy daydreaming about their Lil”Chucky”.