Bucs Capable Of “Doubling Their Win Total”
July 16th, 2010
Linebacker is one of several positions where the Bucs are painfully thin
The new in-house super expert at NFL.com, Michael Lombardi, is not expecting much from the Bucs in 2010.
Why Lombardi boldly predicted the Bucs could have a breakout season and win only six games.
Lombardi, the former Raiders, Eagles and Browns personnel executive, revealed little hope for Tampa Bay and his fellow Hofstra alumni Raheem The Dream in his NFC season preview.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers: The bad news for the Bucs is they only won three games last year. The good news is they won two of the last three games. Is that a signal that they are improving? Is this the momentum needed to launch a successful campaign in 2010? I am not buying it. The Bucs are a young team on and off the field. Young quarterback, young wide receivers, young defensive lineman, young head coach, and young general manager, which means they make mistakes. And last year they made them all over, from players signed, to play-calling, to game management, to turning the ball over. They are, however, starting to collect talent, which leads you to believe on paper they could be a team capable of breaking out and doubling their win total. However, winning in the NFL with youth is a challenge and the Bucs will use the 2010 season to grow up (all over) and possibly be ready to challenge in 2011.
Joe thinks Lombardi is pushing it to say the Bucs would be “breaking out” to win six games. As Joe has written before, the Bucs played 3-6 football to close the season and somewhat righted a sinking ship, with stability at quarterback and Raheem The Dream taking over the defense after the heinous Jim Bates Experiment.
Barring injury, Joe expects the Bucs to keep playing 3-6 football, which would leave them with five or six wins.
Logic aside, the reality of a six-win season and the Bucs’ painfully young roster void of veteran experience puts a hefty knot in Joe’s stomach. With a couple of typically inevitable key injuries, the Bucs’ season could get ugly very quickly.
July 15th, 2010 at 11:27 pm
wooooooooooooooo hoooooooooooooooo might only lose ten if everything falls in place!
Can’t remember when i have been so excited.
Dynasty baby!
July 16th, 2010 at 12:05 am
Shocking! Mr. Sunshine first to post.
July 16th, 2010 at 1:27 am
Strangely enough, I was watching NFL Network’s Top Cornerback Tandems tonight and at #3 found something quite curious, so I looked into it more. Now, I know there are as many differences as there are similarities, but bear with me for the similarities before you rip the differences.
At #3 best cornerback tandem of all time was the San Francisco 49ers duo of Eric Wright and Ronnie Lott. Now, 2 years before they got to SF, they had a new HC, new GM and drafted a new franchise QB in Joe Montana. In 1981, they drafted Ronnie Lott in the first round at CB, then in the second round took Eric Wright. The defense jumped from 27th out of 28 teams in 1980 to 2nd in 1981. The team went from 2-14 in 1979, to 6-10 in 1980, to 13-3 and Super Bowl Champs in 1981.
Ok, I know Morris isn’t Walsh, and I’m pretty sure Freeman isn’t Montana, and drafting 2 DTs with our first two picks isn’t necessarily the same as getting Lott and Wright. But, it does show that you can draft 2 players at the same position with consecutive high picks in the draft and possibly have a huge impact that year. It also shows that sometimes changing a team does take more than one year and free agency. I’m also not saying we’re winning the Super Bowl in 2011, but it’s not like it’s never happened before.
July 16th, 2010 at 1:31 am
Apparently Lombardi’s version of a “breakout” season is doubling the win total regardless of what the original win total was. I guess to him the 2009 Lions had a Monster breakout year considering they not only doubled their 2008 win totals, but they multiplied it infinitely!
I pretty much agree with his thoughts about where the team is currently/heading but I thoroughly disagree with his definition of “breakout”.
If six wins is a breakout year than Freeman throwing 17 TDs and 32 ints should be as well.
July 16th, 2010 at 1:46 am
@BamBam Lott was an every down/darn near near every DB position player. That guy was once in a life time.
McCoy and Price are both DTs and nothing else. You can not compare McCoy and Price to Lott and Wright accurately simply because of the draft situation. It is possible but highly improbable.
I hope you are right but don’t try to get your or our hopes up with statistics that are irrelevant at best. That is statistical fallacy.
Either way, GO BUCS!
July 16th, 2010 at 2:51 am
Wouldnt it be a trip if the Bucs went to the superbowl? 🙂
July 16th, 2010 at 6:55 am
WHEN DOES TRAINING CAMP START?????
July 16th, 2010 at 7:26 am
It is amazing that a good coach gets fired for having back to back 9-7 seasons, then we are looking forward to a “break out” 6-10 season that will justify giving an amateur more years as Tampa Bays coach. What is even more amazing is that some fans are giving the Glazers their hard earned money to purchase tickets to watch a semi-pro team.
July 16th, 2010 at 7:31 am
Since the draft, anytime the subject comes up, I have been saying to expect 6 wins from the Bucs this coming season. I could see 8 if we get a few bounces go our way. I would consider 8 wins over achieving. Saying that, the 2011 season could be the breakout year, not this season.
July 16th, 2010 at 7:41 am
We might double our wins !!!
You mean we might actually go 6-10 !!
WOOOHHOOO!!!!! I’m so excited. It’s just like the good ole’ days with Ray Perkins!!!
Where’s the ticket link so I can sign up for those 50 yard line Club seats ????!!!
….what a good damn joke we have become when best case scenario is 6 wins….
July 16th, 2010 at 7:46 am
Those of you who keep complaining about running Gruden out of town when the bar was higher with him just don’t want to admit the truth. Are you all blind? Do you not see that the way Gruden ran things led to this collapse we are dealing with? How much longer was he going 9-7, losing the wildcard game with no QB and bad drafts? Raheem’s bar is much lower, yes, 6-10 would be an ok season. He has to do that or better. The key is next year it will be even higher, and even higher after that. So anyone whining about 9-7 with Gruden just needs to stop spouting irrelevant BS, we are all smart enough to know what the deal is. Apples and oranges, dont compare them just to rile things up.
July 16th, 2010 at 7:56 am
What’s amazing is that you have people posting here, that know nothing about football. They can’t tell that we drafted horribly over the last six years, they’re to dumbto recognize that the team we had was made of of cast- offs, and had NO CHANCE of winning in the playoffs, much less another SuperBowl. They can’t see the teams skill players were over the hill, with no depth behind them, being groomed to take their place. And they’re such morons that they don’t realize you play to win the SuperBowl, not struggle to be mediocre. They also don’t have the common sense to know, that if the team has NO core talent, you are forced to rebuild, in order to be competitive.what we do have is a bunch of slack jawed crybabies, ” we aren’t gonna be mediocre this year, I don’t understand!”. The only reason you were content with the last 6 years mediocre teams( 500 ball under Gruden), is because your life is Maxed out at mediocre. The Glazers fired Dungy’s ass for not winning the Superbowl, they fired Gruden’s ass for striving for mediocrity. And they’ll fire anyone Else’s ass that isn’t aiming for the SuperBowl. Unlike some of you, they don’t except mediocre. They play it to WIN it! That’s why they OWN the Bucs, and the rest of you sit around crying, probably like you cry about your mediocre Lil lives. It’s about getting in the position ta WIN. If you don’t get that, then you are to dumb to voice your opinion.
July 16th, 2010 at 7:58 am
Call me crazy but 7 wins to me is really possiable and starting 3-0 with this scheudle Browns Panthers a Leftwitch lead Steelers. I rally have faith in 7-9
July 16th, 2010 at 8:07 am
I agree TJ. 6 wins MINIMUM. Is that OK Gru-slurpers? He went 9-7 with a much better talented team and a hell of a D. If Rah gets to 6 or more wins, I dont give a sh*t what any of you say. I will be glad we have Rah because that means we are on the upswing instead of a flatline of .500.
July 16th, 2010 at 8:26 am
The steelers can beat the bucs with Snuffy Smith at QB.
You really think that Freeman and co. will be able to handle their blitz packages? With rookie wideouts? No legit passing threat? And do anything about their running game?
C’mon, that is gonna get uggggggggggggggggly.
Gonna be lucky to beat the Brownies.
July 16th, 2010 at 8:28 am
Chucky destroyed the bucs, but he had a “much more talented team and a hell of a D”……………………..makes perfect sense!
July 16th, 2010 at 8:30 am
BAMBAM…nice post. Do not let these yahoos dampen your mood. Who know, maybe Morris is the next great coach, Freeman turns out to be a Montana type winner, and our two DT turn out to be the best to play the game. None of us know if that will happen or they will all suck.
Tampa2…I typically do not have issue with you, but you may want to consider changing your name and cheering for tha Pats or something.
Eric, how can you be so negative about this team, you too should go cheer on the Pats.
We will still be here when you return because the Bucs arwe winning.
July 16th, 2010 at 8:45 am
If you don’t fully believe and support the Glazer Boys and their make believe coach, you are just not a fan!
Of course those than ran Chucky out of town were true fans!
Not surprising that convoluted logic/hypocrisy and Rah support go hand in hand.
July 16th, 2010 at 8:50 am
Eric, Chucky won with a prebuilt superbowl winner. After that he was a .500 coach. He sucks, so do you.
July 16th, 2010 at 9:20 am
I think it is pretty obvious that if the goal is to rebuild through the draft and create a much younger team to grow together……….. then John Gruden is not the guy you want grooming your high dollar young talent.
It’s no secret that he has no patience for rookies- Coach Morris is young, energetic, and has experience and success coaching young players.
The Tampa Bay fan base is full of people who are extremely reactionary and very short on actual football knowlage.
Be mad at the Glazer’s if you want…….. But don’t take it out on the head coach. He is a talented guy who obviously loves the game of football. He will continue to grow with the team.
July 16th, 2010 at 9:22 am
A pre-built Superbowl winner?? Not quite. It was a team that could never get past the opening wild-card game and the eagles.
Not to mention Gruden brought in 23 new players before the superbowl season. GOOD players , like Keenan McCardell, Pittman, Roman Oben, and Joe Jurevicious….unlike the scrubs we bring in today (Reggie Brown?)
Nice try jack-ass, but the superbowl belongs to Gruden, and the only thing that will ever belong to Rah is a seat next to Leeman Bennett as the worst coaches in Bucs history !
July 16th, 2010 at 9:24 am
Eric…I never was a “get rid of Gruden” guy, so stop saying that every time I post something that is not negative. You have no clue how Morris will turn out, or how the team will turn out. You also have no clue where the ownership’s money is at. I was and I am a fan of Gruden. He may have came to Tampa with a prebuilt team, but he clrealy pushed them to be the best. That being said, so did the owners. If you are going to let Chucky off the hook for the bad things and praise him for the good things, why not extend that to the Galzers as well? Why not be patient and see what we have with these young guys? I am guessing that you are in your early 20’s, go ask some locals about the old days. We are not even close to those day when we had no hope to having a winning season. Part of the fan job is to support the team and cheer for them, win or lose, it heklps them get better.
July 16th, 2010 at 9:26 am
Keep blaming Gruden for the poor drafts also …meanwhile we are currently wasting high draft picks on backups like Brian Price, and important middle rounders on Punters !
This year’s draft , outside of the 1st rounder which was a no brainer , was a JOKE !
July 16th, 2010 at 9:27 am
Radio…I agree to a point. The defense got us their, and it was pretty much in tact. Hands down though, Gruden won a Super Bowl for Tampa. He could not have done it without the Glazers though, so I will give them a chance to right the ship before jumping all over them like you guys.
July 16th, 2010 at 9:30 am
Radio, are you high. Price is not a back up, and a punter can change games. Field position is very important. Now you are simply grasping at straws. I will say that Gruden may have had a better draft record if he had better positions to pick in, but you are fooling yourself if you do not think Price would have been snagged and starting at the next team in line if TB did not pick him. Nit picking for no reason now.
July 16th, 2010 at 9:40 am
I was just pointing out that it’s not unheard of to draft two players at the same position with your first two picks and have an immediate impact. It’s also not unheard of for a team to take 3 years to go from 2-14 to Super Bowl champs.
I did not say McCoy was a future hall of fame players (like Lott). But, 2 players in an area of extreme weakness drafted with the 2 first picks you have can come in and take a team from 27th ranked defense to 2nd ranked defense over the course of one year. People say “don’t expect too much out of the rookies”, well, I’m not expecting too much, but it can be done. Especially since the defense had already started looking better once the Bates experiment was over.
The other thing to consider is turnovers. We were one of the worst teams in that category last year. It was the same in 2006 when we ranked 30th in turnover ratio. If the Freeman can do better (just better, not perfect) about not turning the ball over, and the D can get more turnovers (due to pass rush, better, more consistent play), we could easily see our record improve simply based on that alone.
July 16th, 2010 at 9:46 am
We will be better than people think. That’s not kool-aid drinking. We are predicted\expected to suck. This team played hard in the end and never quit. If our draft picks are half as good as expected, we’re better. Sure we are going to make youthful mistakes, but the leadership Freeman has shown, the work ethic from some of the young guys – it’s refreshing.
I would love to have a dynasty in the Bucs one day, but being the underdog has it’s advantages too.
This team knows it can beat the Saints, the Falcons are just ok – they scare nobody, and the Panthers will finish last in the division.
Have faith, the sky is not falling.
July 16th, 2010 at 9:54 am
Yet another love sonnet to Chucky , by Eric! Chucky was a .500 coach. The real issue is you and” Thomas the liar” have an unrequited mancrush for Gruden! The rest of us are sick of hearing you two profess your love for that fired, nonfactor. This is a Buc website, not a gay love hotline! Ya love him that much? Then go bl** him and get it over with, so the rest of us can talk about CURRENT events, you friggin losers!
July 16th, 2010 at 9:58 am
If the Bucs only win 6 games with the schedule they have, that’s a sign that they haven’t improved…
July 16th, 2010 at 10:04 am
Mcbuc,
Thanks for the early 20’s compliment. If only it were true!
These old bones have seen Tampa Stadium and the expansion bucs in 1976, and lived through and seen all things buccaneers.
It’s because I remember the old days that the current situation is so vexing. Don’t really wanna go back to the Bennett/Perkins/Williamson era. I recall the many “rebuidling projects” that never rebuilt.
And it is because I have been around from day one that I appreciate the one Championship and the contributions of Mr. Gruden. Not since the Doug Williams Oklahoma Outlaw fiasco have I seen a more foolish mistake by the bucs (firing Jon, hiirng Rah). And, I believe both were motivated by $. Lots of people thought the bucs would be better w/o Doug, but it did not work out that way.
I was merely pointing out than many folks on here seem to think that blasting Gruden is perfectly acceptable commentary, while blasting Rah disqualifies you as a buccaneer fan and makes you a “hater”. I say that is nonsense.
July 16th, 2010 at 10:07 am
You are a class act Captain Tim.
July 16th, 2010 at 10:11 am
Eric, what? Do I have to give you his adress! We know, we know. You love Jon Gruden! Yeah, we get that. He’s been fired for over TWO YEARS! Isn’t there another website that would be better for you to post your affections on? Some sorta romance site or something? We are TRYING ta talk football here, and the NEVER ENDING pronouncements of yer love are really, really taking up space!
July 16th, 2010 at 10:14 am
Your computation of time is as good as your commentary!
July 16th, 2010 at 10:22 am
Over TWO YEARS! LOL!!! It sure seems that way!
July 16th, 2010 at 10:30 am
Amazing that this kind of stupidity still exists on this board:
“It is amazing that a good coach gets fired for having back to back 9-7 seasons”
Uh, Gruden was not fired for his record in the last two seasons. Ridiculous. Put down the axe.
July 16th, 2010 at 10:37 am
Ok, SHOULDA been fired two years ago
July 16th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Eric — the difference between criticizing Gruden as compared to Morris is that GRUDEN HAS A SEVEN YEAR BODY OF WORK. Morris has one season.
So, for example, where it would be stupid to criticize Morris at this point for failing to develop a franchise QB, it is a valid criticism of Gruden, right? Gruden had seven years and never did it and, in fact, wanted to continue with the “plug and play” veteran QB system. He wanted to bring Garcia back, not draft Freeman.
It is also a little ridiculous to call for Morris’ head for getting 3 wins in a first season that was certainly a transitional season, when Gruden only did one better (4-12) and two better (5-11) in two prior seasons with teams with far greater talent.
Finally, the most significant difference is that most Gruden criticism (and praise) is based on Gruden’s actual performance. Much of the criticism lobbed at Morris is actually people venting their anger over Gruden’s termination. You are the prime example.
July 16th, 2010 at 10:50 am
Eric isn’t here JimBuc, he’s headed ta Grudens house
July 16th, 2010 at 10:51 am
Eric…I am tired of the Gruden talk, since it does not matter, but people should give him props for his coaching. He had bad years, but he also did not have the high draft picks thqat may have helped. That being said, I also think Morris will make a good coach. he was said to be an up and coming coach to keep an eye on a couple of years ago. NFL people also said he would be a head coach at a young age, I am sure they did not think it would happen so fast though. Paying Gruden and morris does not save any cash, they are paying both of them. No coach in the history of the NFL has won a SB with two seperate teams, so if you want to follw history, I do not want the hand full of proven SB coaches that could have been picked up. I like to promote from within, and no one can say Dom did not put his time in in Tampa. Morris could have used another year or two running the D with Gruden, but it did not happen that way. Maybe Gruden was not wiliing to go young, or maybe they just thought a fresh face would change things for the better. I am glad to hear you have been around as long as I have. Look for some light, it is there.
July 16th, 2010 at 11:16 am
JimBuc, What QB should Gruden have drafted and tryed to develop in those 7 years? Be realistic, meaning which ones were available for us to take and/or still on the boards when we drafted(don’t forget we didnt have 2 1st’s and 2 2nd’s)? It’s not like he didn’t try. You know Simms and Gradkowski were tried failures. Seeing where those 2 players are now, how do you know Gruden couldn’t develop a real potential QB draft? He never had one, which is back to my question. Who could he have drafted?
McBuc, As for me, I just hate the Gruden haters blasting the man. He isn’t has bad has some of you make him out to be. I know, he WAS our coach. I get that, but half the time it’s his haters that bring him up and not me. I just feel you guys can opinions on Gruden, but we ca’t have opinions on Raheem? We are the haters?
July 16th, 2010 at 12:22 pm
Price IS a backup , unless McCoy busts.
PERIOD.
You can’t play two undertackles at once , and Price is not built to be a Nose Tackle. If that really is the plan , it will be as big a failed expierment as putting Jermaine Phillips at LB was . ( this is ignoring the fact that drafting Nose Tackle 35th overall is ridiculous to begin with )
July 16th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Everybody, let me fully describe the starting quarterbacks we had here during Gruden’s tenure:
When Jon Gruden came here in 2002, Brad Johnson was our sure starter and did great for us until 2004 when Gruden benched him in favor of Brian Griese. Griese did pretty good until midway through the 2005 season when he got knocked out for the year. Chris Simms came in, played very well and led us to the playoffs that year. 3 games into 2006 he was almost killed when he got that spleen injury. Gruden had no choice but to put Gradkowski as our starter for the remainder of the year.
Now when Gruden brought in Jeff Garcia before the 2007 season, I don’t think he named him the starter from day one when he got here. There was a competition I believe and remember that Chris Simms was still around. So I don’t think you can blame him for that.
So guys, I understand that we were always changing QB’s when he was here, but a lot of it wasn’t his fault. He was just a guy with bad luck as far as I’m concerned. I don’t think he centered on “old guys” being his QB’s. When Griese was around, Gruden was just using what he had. Same with Simms, he was using what he had. They both played good, but got injured. Not his fault. Gradowski was a 5th round rookie backup, and he had no choice.
Every move Gruden made at QB, I can completely understand.
July 16th, 2010 at 12:38 pm
“Drafting a nose tackle at 35 overall is rediculous!”, friggin idiot!
July 16th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Aaron Rodgers
I know we needed a RB and I know we had an unproven Simms, but still…if Gruden was a great QB evaluator…we COULD HAVE pulled the trigger.
July 16th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
As far as the D-line is concerned, Roy Miller will be the starting nose tackle-you can bet on that. He is built like a nose in the 4-3 should be. Price, McCoy, and Miller will ROTATE in and out of the 2 positions for the most part.
I can’t believe the crap I hear from so called “buc fans”…….. they do nothing but complain about the D-line getting no push since Sapp left…..
and then complain when we draft 2 proto-typical 4-3 interior lineman to solidify the position for years to come.
Did anyone ever consider that Mark Dominick and Raheem Morris might know more about the team`s needs than you????????
They spend most of thier time at 1 Buc Place eating, drinking, and sleeping football but,
I’m supposed to believe that a bunch of so called “buc fans” who aren’t employed by NFL football teams know what’s better for the team than the head coach and GM????????????????????????????????????????
Ignorant fanbase……… just be patient
July 16th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
oar — the proof is in the pudding so to speak. Seven years, at least 7 different QBs. Now as for the excuses that you offer, some are valid others not so much.
For example, no doubt Gruden was hampered by a lack of premium picks early, but the point is they did not even try for 7 years. Simms was McKay’s guy and always on the outs with Gruden. He only used him begrudgingly and even complained becasue he was a lefty. Grads was a sixth round afterthought. That is not making an effort to find a franchise QB.
They never made an effort to get a younger QB in free agency, never made an effort to trade up to get a guy like Rodgers. They never even used any of the middle picks for a guy. Instead, Gruden always believed that he could plug in a veteran (Griese, Garcia etc.) In fact, when given a chance to go with a young guy — McCown against ATL — Gruden blinked and reverted to Griese. Not saying that was a right or wrong decision, just saying it is indicative of the mentality.
I think Gruden is/was a great coach. Armed with a good, indepndent GM, Gruden might win more games than all of his peers. He was hurt in some respects by Allen, who was clearly an enabler, as witnessed by the current strategy in Skins land (i.e. the oldest team got older).
July 16th, 2010 at 1:01 pm
@ Eric the Steelers pass defense did not light anybody up either last game I watch Burce Browkoski lit them up. and I know you going to say Polomlua was not playing but besides there super bowl win when does he play
July 16th, 2010 at 1:13 pm
OAR…I think we are agreeing. I do not bash Gruden, but I do think Morris should get a chance, since he is on the job as we speak. You have a great point about the QBs that would have been possible to draft. Tom Brady is an exception to the rule, so I agree with you on that as well. Not to mention Simms m,ay have been the guy if he did not suffer such a bad injury. I also think the Gruden era drafts are judged in an unfair manner, like you, I, and I think Patrick said…he did not have the number of high draft picks that may have panned out into great players for him. My issue is thatit is all irrelevant at this point.
July 16th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
Radio…Maybe you should apply for a job with the Bucs. Price is a great player, and our line will most likely improve because of his presence.
July 16th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
@McBuc, “Price is a great player…”
I hope he will be, but the guy hasn’t even practiced yet. He was held out w/injury and UCLA had classes until well into June. Are you a fortune teller or something???
July 16th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Let me restate…Price may be a great player. Sorry about that. I do not know if he will be, but he has the ability to be. Thatn is why I said the line will “most likely” improve because of his presence. It may not be this year, but we should all hope it will at some point. Why no questions for Radio and his decleration that Price is and will be a back up? Or that he is not suited to play NT?
July 16th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Or that it will fail if he does? I have said all along none of us know what is going to happen, but you seem to let the negative posts slide by you. Anyway, good point, we will have to wait and see. Just remember that when all these guys are predicting loses and saying there is no way Morris will ever make it, etc.
July 16th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Amazing that all the talk about Gruden persists? Gruden was an oustanding coach, but he was not fired for his coaching. He was fired (along with Allen) because they had an approach that was at odds with the way that the Glazers first built the team.
At the end of 08, following a four game collapse, that the Glazers probably took stock of the team and asked Gruden/Allen to provide their plan moving forward. That seesm like a reasonable and likley scenario under the circumstances, right? That’s what owners do when things go sideways. If this is what happened, Gruden’s “plan” was to bring Garcia back at QB. He said this in one of his final interviews.
Standing on the other side of the room (figuratively) would have been Dom (who was always being groomed for GM) and Morris (who was not ready, but who was thought of by a few as a promising coach). Dom and Morris would have advocated for FREEMAN and would have been more receptive to the veteran purging than Gruden & Allen, obviously.
Is it any doubt that the the Glazer went the direction they did? What’s the first thing you would have done if you were a Glazer? You would have said to yourself “how did we do it before, how did we beceome a compettiive team that won a Super Bowl?” Well, the anser to that would have been the Dom/Morris approach NOT the Gruden/Allen approach
Like it or not, the best success of the Bucs — 1996 to 2002 (or 2003ish) was the result of a defense that was built almost entirely through the draft. Building through the draft and, in particular tossing aside veterans to give young guys chances, was not the Gruden/Allen way. You have seven years of evidence to support that statement and you can even look at the Skins to see that Allen follows the same approach to this day.
Can we stop talking about Gruden now? Great coach, but a lot more to it than just coaching!
July 16th, 2010 at 2:34 pm
@JimBuc, don’t you think the Glazerhouse’s would have “taken stock of the team” after the 2007 season, BEFORE they extended both Gruden and Allen’s contracts? If they are the geniuses you think they are, then they wouldn’t have extended those contracts.
I seriously doubt the owners fired those guys because of Garcia and the desire to rebuild. There was something much bigger going on for them to fire two guys with that much of a contract left to pay. Personally, I think it was money and the amount of control of the organization that Gruden/Allen had. If those guys had too much control and were going to spend money the Glazerhouse’s didn’t want spent, then they had to get rid of them and replace them with guys who didn’t have all-controlling contracts and guys who would do what they were told.
Just my 2 cents!
July 16th, 2010 at 2:37 pm
Meybe mushforbrains should apply to clean the toilets on my boat. It would suit his personality! And when he talks sh** all day, he’s already got his head in the can! Then again, he’d have ta give up his lucrative career at ” port-a-potty!” lmfao
July 16th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
Louie”personally, I think it was money . Blah blah blah!” Louie, if you’ve proven one thing here, it’s that “Thinking” ain’t yer strong suit! You need to try “listening”! Meybe your dumbass would learn something!
July 16th, 2010 at 2:43 pm
We will never really know if JimBuc or Louie are right on this one, but I think we should move on from the Gruden conversation. JimBuc is right, it is moot. It does not matter why Gruden and Allen are gone, now lets support our local team and hope to win some football games.
July 16th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Look, Raheem better do more than just “double” his win total this year. If he doesn’t win at least 7 or 8 games, I’ll be calling U-Haul to send a moving van to his house after the season ends!!!! We have an easy ass schedule, and 6 wins is acceptable??? What’s gonna happen when we play harder opponents?
July 16th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Hey I’m for the whole “moving on from the Gruden conversation or is an old story approach”, but let’s see if his haters can do it. I highly doubt some can keep him from they’re posts.
July 16th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
CapTim, You must have gotten the Pocahontas Model Canoe with all the bells and whistles, with having a toilet and all.
July 16th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
It doesn’t matter why Rah was hired. True enough.
The fact that he totally sucks beyond belief is the relevant aspect.
July 16th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
oar — that is a good point on the haters. Let’s see if Eric and Thomas can provide objectve opinions about Morris, rather than beating him over the head every opportunity they get because they are angry
July 16th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Patrick…I hope they win more than that as well my man. The scary thing is everyother team on the schedule is saying the same thing.
July 16th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Once again , you don’t draft a DT 3rd overall and pay him 40 million dollars garanteed so he can rotate in and out all game. He must be a FULL-TIME player , and game changer ,similiar to the way Sapp was.
He can’t play Nose Tackle either , because he is an undersized player who gets by with quickness. A Nose tackle has to be a big strong guy that can eat double steams , hold his gap , and stuff the run. He will fail miserably in that role, so that makes him a BACK UP. We drafted a sure back-up when we needed a sure starter.
Picking Price was just stupid , anyone with half a brain will tell you that. Don’t believe me??? Ask Steve White.
July 16th, 2010 at 3:18 pm
@Radio Mushmouth
I wasn’t really sure about the Price pick either. Price seems like a pretty good player though. Go to youtube and watch some of his highlights, he’s a beast.
Btw, I think Price is supposed to rotate with Miller, not McCoy. Now if he’s gonna rotate with McCoy, then I agree, that’s stupid and a waste of a highly talented 2nd round pick.
July 16th, 2010 at 3:32 pm
OAR,
I can name 1 QB Gruden never developed or gave a chance to develop, and he was ALREADY on the roster! Josh Johnson! Don’t gimme that he never had a real QB BS. He was an offensive “genius” remember? He should have made it work, whoever it was. But of course, we all know he didnt.
And let me state that I don’t mention Gruden unless its a reply to someone else. I agree it was right to cut him, but I also show him the respect that the only coach to win a SB should recieve. I would rather forget all about him because it doesnt matter now. But I guarantee that the next time any post about Morris comes up, Eric and his girlfriends will begin slurping. Tell those fools to stop bringing his name up. Just stick to bashing Rah, atleast thats relevant today.
July 16th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
JimBuc, Can’t and don’t speak for them. Good luck!
July 16th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Gary, I remember reading an interview with Olsen, when he was the QB coach and said they’re plan for Josh Johnson was to sit a year, learn and develop. He was doing that and that is what happened, even when Gruden got fired. Josh Johnson did start, didn’t he at one point last year? I think he would have with Gruden(if he was ready). Afterall he ran Gruden’s west coast style offense in college and was familiar with it.(probally why Olsen now O-coordinator is using his version of the west coast). So we’ll never know, but I disagree with your statement. Gruden was trying to develop him and wasn’t allowed to continue with that, because he was fired.
July 16th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
oar — what round was Josh Johnson drafted in? Even if you accept the premis that JJ was the future (tought to agree with, but just for fun) is JJ an example of a committment to finding a FRANCHISE qb?
July 16th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
Clifton Smith is a a great return guy but is he an example of the Bucs being committed to finiding a return guy? No, Dexter Jackson was the committment . . . oh . . . nevermind.
July 16th, 2010 at 5:04 pm
JimBuc, My comment about Josh Johnson was to Gary, but thanks for asking. Yes, I believe what Olsen said. Let me ask you something, do you draft QBs(whatever round see Tom Brady) to hope they are the one/good enough to start or do you draft ones hoping they are a good back-up or bench warmer?
July 16th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Radio…Didn’t Brad C play the same position at 6’1 270 lbs? I could be mistaklen though.
July 16th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
So Radio…If Price is 33 lbs heavier and the same hight as Brad C, why can he not play the position again? Why is he undersized, I always liked the way Brad played back in the day.
July 16th, 2010 at 5:35 pm
What round was Ton Brady drafted in? Joe Montana?
July 16th, 2010 at 5:41 pm
If JJ is so bad, then why is he the solidly entrenched as the #2 guy?
July 16th, 2010 at 5:42 pm
JimBuc, Still waiting. In other words, a franchise QB doesn’t have to just come from the 1st or 2nd rounds.
July 16th, 2010 at 5:44 pm
oar (and Eric) — Tom Brady was selected late, so what? Sure guys can surprie you, but I am pretty sure a coach does not want to rely on surprises.
My point was there was NEVER any objective evidence — not a shred during the entire 7 year period — that a franchise QB was high on the Gruden/Allen list. Can you think of a single player? Gruden was not in favor of Simms , a lefty pocket passer, and I think Simms may have been the highest draft pick dedicated to the position. How about free agents? Anyone?
Tought thing about you guys (and your credibility on this topic) is that you are such Gruden lovers (I am a fan, but you guys are nuts) that you take ridiculous positions like JJ was the next franchise QB or Tom Brady was a late-rounder. LOL
July 16th, 2010 at 5:47 pm
oar — my comment was commitment, not that it could not happen. The sun might rise in the west tomorrow too, but I am not going to build my career around it.
Louie — JJ may or may not turn out o be something, but he was drafted when? A Doug Williams project, right? Is that your example of Gruden’s committment to getting a franchise QB? If it is then Morris topped Gruden in that department right out of the gate, right?
July 16th, 2010 at 6:02 pm
JimBuc, I know when Tom was selected. So now coaches are drafting to hope for surprises? My point about Tom was it doesn’t matter where they were drafted, all draft picks are expected to turn out to play and start. Franchise or not.
You are one of those posters that loves to put words in others mouthes/posts. I didn’t say that about Josh Johnson. I was repeating an interview, I remember from before Gruden was fired. So Olsen doesn’t have a clue about the work he put in with Josh? Whatever. I personally think Gruden liked and wanted a veteran QB, he’s not the only coach to do that. But, you make it sound like he was.
July 16th, 2010 at 6:04 pm
Well, coming out of college (early by the way), Freeman was labeled “a project”. The Dream and Dom said they didn’t even plan on starting Freeman the first year and maybe even the 2nd year. Going winless, changed all that.
A lot of people have amnesia, but if you remember, Gruden was trying to re-build the aging defense during those post-Superbowl years. This was made difficult due to the fact they didn’t have many high draft picks. I’m sure he would have loved to draft a franchise QB in one of the early rounds.
July 16th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
Patrick ..I’ve seen Price play and I know he is talanted. I’m not saying he sucks , I’m saying we are going to be wasting his talent by putting him at a position he’s not suited for , and/or sitting him behind a better player ( McCoy)
Besides, even if you believe a “rotation” between McCoy and Price is the plan , it’s still stupid , because we have way to many holes and this team to be worrying about a platoon at one position. We could have drafted a STARTER ar another…preferbly Defensive End. Not to mention , you don’t pay a guy as much as we will pay McCoy in order for him to be a part-time player. It’s not gonna happen unless he’s a bust.
That’s why it’s a stupid pick !
July 16th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
You don’t draft an undertackle 35th overall because you need a Nose Tackle…you draft a position of greater importance, and then in the late rounds you can pick up any fat body to play nose tackle. It’s not a skill position , you can find a nose tackle in the last rounds.
July 16th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Entering the fray late you can see how these comment chains take on a laughable direction far away from the article – I know that I am guilty of starting this on occasion.
The article is about an objective analyst who said:
“The Bucs are a young team on and off the field. Young quarterback, young wide receivers, young defensive lineman, young head coach, and young general manager, which means they make mistakes. And last year they made them all over, from players signed, to play-calling, to game management, to turning the ball over. They are, however, starting to collect talent, which leads you to believe on paper they could be a team capable of breaking out and doubling their win total. However, winning in the NFL with youth is a challenge and the Bucs will use the 2010 season to grow up (all over) and possibly be ready to challenge in 2011.”
He is absolutely right.
Capt Dim- there is not a commenter of lower intelligence than you. We know you hate Gruden! I have said many times that I was not opposed to his hiring, nor Rah’s hiring until I watched the worst absolute embarrassment of a job as a head coach I have ever seen – one of the worst in league history. I am more interested in getting rid of Rah for a Cowher or someone equivalent.
And DBR – you are not allowed to call Rah Coach Morris b/c even his rookies don’t call him that.
Everyone agrees that Gruden didn’t draft well – for whatever reason. He does prefer vets, but you can’t argue that his win total per salary spent on players during his tenure was near the top of the league. I believe he was fired b/c of the collapse and I heard from a source that Clayton started a mutiny among the players. I DONT CARE THAT GRUDEN WAS FIRED!!! BUT RAH IS THE WORST COACH I HAVE SEEN AT THIS LEVEL.
I, like many, am not a fan of what the Glazer-kids have done w/ this once proud org since the old man got sick.
You can stick your head in the mud, or in the bait bucket in your gindy, but this team is very bad right now. They have no chance of winning more than 5 or 6 games.
July 16th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
. . . not opposed to Gruden’s firing . .
sorry
July 16th, 2010 at 8:37 pm
oar — answer a simple question: over the seven years did Gruden show a true commitment to finding a franchise QB? It is really a simple point. I know that every QB drafted is drafted to play. DUH. But, how hard did Gruden and Allen try to get a franchise QB? Not very hard, right? That was their choice.
July 16th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
True enough, Gruden preferred veteran qb’s.
Had some good success, Rich Gannon, Brad, Garcia. I think Mcnabb would have been a great fit.
Did win the division with simms before the de-spleening.
Franchise QB’s arent the be all and end all, especially if you put a lot of time and effort in, and the guy doesn’t pan out. We will se how it works with Josh. Big season for him.
July 16th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
thomas: BUT RAH IS THE WORST COACH I HAVE SEEN AT THIS LEVEL.
Really? I’m not even sure that’s true for last year. Let’s see….
Steve Spagnuolo – Rams: 1-15, 29th offense, 29th defense
Jim Schwarz – Lions: 2-14, 26th offense, 32nd defense
Raheem Morris – Bucs: 3-13, 28th offense, 27th defense
Todd Haley – Chiefs: 4-12, 25th offense, 30th defense (I believe they also fired a coordinator before the start of the season and had a new GM)
Before last year….
Rod Marinelli – Lions: 3-13 in 2006, 7-9 in 07, and 0-16 in 08
Tom Cable – Raiders: 5-11 in his first full season as HC after having 12 warm-up games the year before. 31st offense, 26th defense
Mike Nolan – 49ers: Never reached .500 in 3 1/2 seasons. Records included 4-12 and 5-11.
Joe Bugel – Cards/Raiders: 4 of 5 seasons with double digit losses
The list goes on and on and on…..
He is far from the worst ever, not even the worst last year. Only time will tell if he’s in the same category as some of the other guys or not. So, either you don’t watch the NFL, just the Bucs, which speaks for your not “seeing” a worse coach.. or you’re just blinded by wanting more for the team. Either way, he’s not the worst, and things could get better.
July 16th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
BamBam, nice post, again. Good insight.
Gary are you more than 13 years old?
I don’t understand the Gruden hate either. I can understand not agreeing with all of his decisions, but they guy is damn good football coach and a motivator. I know some guys like to bash Brooks and say he was over the hill when he got released. Brooks has said some very good things about Gruden and I’ve never heard him bash Jon. Brooks said Gruden kicked them in their @$$ in 02′ and took them to whole new level, offense and defense. You guys that say he sucks must have some kind of a mental block. He had faults, but how many bad calls were Allen’s that Gruden is blamed for. We may never know. I am starting to like Raheem, but he’s no Jon Gruden. I still think we will have a good team, if Olson can master Gruden’s playbook.
July 17th, 2010 at 4:10 am
Listen guys, Gruden is gone, get over it. Some liked him, some didn’t, but he’s not coming back so move on with your life. I was not much of a Gruden fan because I didn’t feel like we were improving from year to year, and (besides his first year) I never felt we had any chance to be a contender. We had some veteran talent to give us 9 or 10 wins a season, but no young talent to build on. That being said, I still cheered hard for the team every week, and I didn’t stop my support for the Bucs because I wasn’t a fan of the coach. It really seems like there are a lot of people that hope we fail, just so Raheem can be fired and they can say they were right. That’s pretty childish, and I feel sorry for you. Give the man some time to develop the young players, he might just surprise you! There’s a long list of NFL coaches, past and present, that were initially thought of as terrible coaches until they turned it around and became great. This is what we are working with right now, why don’t you try and support the team for a while, at least until week 4!
July 17th, 2010 at 6:16 am
Thomas, as proven in previous post, you are a cowardly, lying Puss. Devoid of integrity or manhood. Again, your Lil bitch ass doesn’t need to mention me in your post, as you suck!
July 17th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
BigMac,
This is the 2nd time you have said something moronic directed at me. I am well over 13. What did I say that makes you think I am that young? When someone disagrees with you, that doesnt make them stupid or young. I always disagree with some of the posters, but I dont make it personal.
Don’t mention me again unless you have something insightful to say. Otherwise just keep your posts about others, because I am not one to play with.
Good day sir.
July 17th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Gary, son, don’t call me sir, I work for a living. The first time I called you out it was with very good reason if you happen to revisit it as you have already relived it. Second, I wouldn’t play with you because you are probably more than capable of doing that all by yourself. If I want to call out, a Noob, for complaining about my favorite coach, not you or your badass image is going to deter me. Gary (notice I said your name) Gruden was dealt a tough hand to play with as coach of the Bucs. The picks he didn’t have and the cap problems that took time to solve made for some tough sledding. In no way was he perfect, but neither are the rest of us. If you want to bash me, or threaten me, or anything else to me, feel free. I’m not worried, not scared, not going anywhere either.
“Not one to play with” LMFAO, now that’s a good one. I have to give you credit there. Okay, let’s unload your resume. Here goes. LOL
July 19th, 2010 at 7:44 am
Alright man. I am trying to be civil about this, so lets just leave it. I could get into a back and forth, but really whats the point? I am not going to act like a keyboard gangster. You like Gruden, so did I. But we disagree on whether or not he should have been let go. Thats fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you want to flatter me by coming after me, feel free.