Wunsch Counting On No Football in 2011
June 30th, 2010
Former Bucs offensive lineman Jerry Wunsch, proprietor of the upstart Big Mike’s pizzeria chain — an establishment that would be well served by investing in Joe’s advertising — spent a little time today in studio on the Ron and Ian Show, on WDAE-AM 620.
Chatting with host and former Bucs teammate Ian Beckles about the NFL labor situation, Wunsch explained that he’s had recent discussions with bigwigs on the owners’ side of the table and the players’ side. Wunch said from the owners’ perspective “there’s a 100 percent” chance of a lockout, and he characterized the players’ current resolve as “150 percent” chance of a lockout.
“So that’s a 250 percent chance of no football in 2011,” Wunsch said.
Wunsch talked a lot about the NFL’s need to take care of retired players as a big issue for the players’ association. He offered the example of former Packers and Dolphins tight end Marv Fleming, whose 12-year career wrapped up in 1974. Wunsch said Fleming has health issues from playing football, never earned more than $60,000 a year, and his NFL pension is now $149 a month.
Wunsch’s comments, specifically the “250 percent” line, were a real slap in the face to Joe.
There’s a part of Joe that can’t imagine those involved in the cash machine that is the NFL would ever be so stupid as to lose a season.
June 30th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
So, Penn says the CBA is the problem, Wunsch say the CBA is the problem. The entire league acts as if the CBA is the problem and yet the entire Geeek chorus on JBF says: “CBA has nuttin to do with nuttin. . . the Glazers are just cheap!” Classic.
I say the Glazers sign Penn and Ruud and everyone else to long-term, guaranteed deals NOW!! It’s the “smart” thing to do (according to the chorus).
🙂
June 30th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
Oops . . . meant Greek not Geeek. On second thought . . .
June 30th, 2010 at 3:01 pm
Great story Joe!
The nuts and bolts of these negotiations deserve more ink. Part of what Wunsch has heard is posturing from both sides…but part of it is the absolute truth. The owners have all the leverage in the negotiations right now due to their sweet heart TV contracts with Fox, CBS, ESPN, DirectTV, etc. Unless the NFLPA can successfully void these deals NFL fans will be staring a 2011 lockout straight in the face.
Bottom line: Don’t feel like you’ve been slapped in the face Joe. There’s still time to make a deal.
June 30th, 2010 at 3:05 pm
Great take from a “sensiblefan.”
June 30th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
Both sides posturing. Not that there won’t be a lockout, but let’s call it over dramatization knowing what each side said will become public in some fashion.
June 30th, 2010 at 3:54 pm
Joe, does this make you feel better:
FOX Sports’ Alex Marvez reports that the NFLPA has entered negotiations with commissioner Roger Goodell on a six-year Collective Bargaining Agreement that would extend through the 2016 season.
“We’re going to negotiate a six-year deal,” said NFLPA director DeMaurice Smith. Smith is “adamant” the owners provide documentation of their financial records before a new CBA is struck, but the mere fact that there’s progress so early in the process is promising. Both sides have too much money to lose from a lockout. “There will be an agreement at some point,” said Goodell. “Sometimes, these things don’t happen until you get a little closer to the end (of the CBA). That’s just the reality.” Expect something to be finalized next winter.
Source: FOX Sports
June 30th, 2010 at 5:05 pm
Lets see… Lunch first said the owners are 100%… before I go on, nothing is ever that absolute… then he says the Players are 150% sure there will be a lockout…. which is absurb because 150% is more that the max of 100 (obviously)… but the lockout is by the league TO the players, not a strike from the players… the truth is, the players leverage finacially is minimized, if not SURE to be affected based on tye decrease in team revenues. Players have no choice but try to come down to the owners salary desires… just because revenue and future revenue is on tye downside… that and that’s the primary barking point of the owners… the salary cap. About the only hopes the players have are to restructure restricted free agent rules, rookie salary cap rules, pensions, conduct pu ishment procedures, and the like… but the players will not be getting paid more, they have to accept taking league wide salary cap cut.
Now Lunch then says, oh this means 250% chance of there being a lockout. What a stupid comment…. even if he is joking. At least average the two, don’t add them up to exaggerate your point. The proper range is from 1% to 99%…. and the proper probability is debatable. I say it is really closer to the 1% side of the scale because in fact there is just too much money to lose. However, going an entire off-season without practice and camp, the season may very well be a wash.
June 30th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
Jimbuc I will take the bait. On this whole penn cba issue. Let me start by saying you are totally right about a few things in this situation. Yes we are not signing him because of the cba issue, and yes he is pretty much forced to play this year for that deal if he wants to have a big pay day down the road. This is why i think regardless of those two points we need to resign him now. First if he plays well this year he will cost alot more than he would now.Second this dick move by the organization will only piss him off more making him less likely to sign next year. Now before you give me that we can franchise him next year crap, look up the average of the 3 highest paid left tackles and see how much that would cost. THen when you throw the fact that tanard, quincy, ruud, hayes, and i believe joseph are all free agents next year, whom all play cheaper positions to franchise than penn you can start to see how little of a chance there is in franchising penn. We will never win a bidding war for penn. So by not signing him now you can pretty much kiss him goodbye. “The plan” was supposed to be build through draft and resign our young core players, If penn is not that then i do not know who is. Sign him now or lose him forever.
June 30th, 2010 at 5:27 pm
Oh and 1 more thing jim buc signing him now is the smart thing to do and the glazers are cheap. The geeek chorus has spoken.
June 30th, 2010 at 6:17 pm
jarrett, the team has offered him a tender contract and wants to sign him to that contract offer. Penn wants a long term deal, probably with guaranteed money and very few incentive clauses that would have to be met to get the whole amount of the contract. As for the franchise tag issue, if they haven’t pissed off the other players you mentioned (Ruud, TJack, Hayes, Black, etc), they can resign them to long term deals which saves the franchise tag for Penn. The team used the tag on AB for $9M, I don’t think they’d hesitate to use it on a LT if he deserves it.
Regardless, this is a ridiculous argument to have. Penn will sign the tender offer before the season begins. The CBA will probably be agreed upon before the end of the “season” (I believe that is early March officially), at which point teams will have time to sign their own free agents before they become free agents. It’s much ado about nothing really. Until the deadlines hit (season begins for Penn and season ends for CBA) it’s all speculation and seeding discord. As things get closer, they become clearer and all will be known. If Penn isn’t signed or the CBA isn’t agreed upon, THEN it will be worth discussing.
June 30th, 2010 at 6:29 pm
I know I have no expectations of the Buccaneers and who they will or won’t sign.
They called Penn fat and then lied to him all in a matter of weeks.
Don’t know about you, but I don’t expect Penn to sign anything until he has to.
I also don’t expect the Bucs to win this year, so I don’t think it matters that much if they do or don’t sign Penn.
It’s a wash. Expect nothing and you too may be surprised.
June 30th, 2010 at 7:20 pm
jarrett — good points. Couple places where we differ. First, players don’t walk out of spite they go where they get the best deal. Period. Second, the current team always has the advantage because there is no bidding war until a player gets to free agency. Most playesr sign with their existing team before free agency because of the certainty of accepting a contract as opposed to testing the water in free agency. The only exception is a truly exceptional player. Penn is not a truly exceptional player. He is a middle of the road LT (not just my opinion, the opinion of most in the league — just Google LT rankings).
The team most certainly with franchise Penn. That is another reason why Penn will likely sign a long term deal this season. He does not want to be a RFA, a RFA again and the a franchise player. The franchise tag is why Penn will play this year and play well because he wants a long-term deal from the Bucs.
It might be — it should be — cheaper to sign him now. It’s only becasue so many buy into the bogus argument that the Glazers are “cheap,” that people don’t seem to accept that they will pay for a player. If you drop the “cheap” argument, then you might understand that the Bucs probably HOPE they have to pay Penn more because that will mean he is worth it (i.e playing at a high level). Teams do not mind spending money on LTs.
June 30th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
I did not read BamBam’s post before I posted my comments. Bam Bam’s analysis is dead on correct (including his use of “much ado about nothing.” I prefer NADA but otherwise perfect)
June 30th, 2010 at 7:23 pm
Will this team pay for this Lt though? that is what worries me
June 30th, 2010 at 7:37 pm
jarrett, they will pay if he’s worth it. That’s what this season will be all about… determining if he’s worth the big payday, long term deal.
June 30th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
Once again BamBam is dead on correct. The Bucs (and Penn) have a perfect opportunity to see what he is worth. Penn wins because he is not judged by last year (weight gain and change of systems) and the Bucs win because they get a motivated LT. Same situation with Ruud.
June 30th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
jarrett – I know the “cheap” thing is the prevailing theme, but the Bucs made Faine and Winslow the highest paid players at their position, they got Ward who (heaven help us) was probably one of the best FA running backs and the swung hard (and thankfully missed) at Fat Albert. They also drafted McCoy. Many here said that they would trade down (ridiculous) to save the money. So, not sure we can just conclude that they would not pay Penn.
June 30th, 2010 at 9:08 pm
Ari’s Hired Goobers at it again? JimBuc and BamBam, say hi to Ari for me okay?
June 30th, 2010 at 9:40 pm
RahDom, I don’t see what your post has to do with the CBA, the NFL in 2011, or player contracts beyond this year… which I thought this thread was about. I can’t say hi to people I don’t know living in other states. If all you are about is personal inflammatory remarks, it seems pretty obvious it’s because you know nothing about football and therefore can’t intellectually discuss it.
July 1st, 2010 at 12:17 am
The players association is ridiculous. Those players new what they were getting paid at the time. If they wanted more money and less health issues they should have stayed in college and taken a different career path. I can’t stand a bunch of old ass babies crying for free money.
July 1st, 2010 at 12:37 am
@ Mauha Deeb
I disagree completely.
1) The PA is doing it’s job. Goodell and his boys are doing their jobs. Nobody is a fault until a lockout happens. Everything leading up to it is posture and puffery in an attempt to get public support.
2) Risks and rewards are inherent in any line of work. If you’re one of the select few that’s good enough to be paid well to do something but is also possibly dangerous to your health, would you do that thing or go work at a job that you’re mediocre at for less pay?
3) Nobody is crying. The market (and the previous CBA) says that players get paid X. Players are fighting to keep what they have.
July 1st, 2010 at 3:15 am
I just erased what I just wrote. It just seems like we argue the same points every day. I just know that the Bucs are screwed if they have any type of injuries on this team. Especially on the OL and RB. Heck almost every position. I am not worried about 2011. I think something will get done in time to have a season. Still think they should sign Penn to a long term deal. LT is a very hard position to fill. The Bucs are playing with fire if they think they can find a competent one easily.
July 1st, 2010 at 7:10 am
The only reason kellen winslow got a big deal is because the glzers were forced to spend money so that they could reach the salary cap floor. Not because they thought he was the best tight end in the game
July 1st, 2010 at 8:43 am
HEY, the NFL is making all of us Billionaires and Millionaires so damn rich, I got this great idea! Let’s screw it up! We’ll go on strike, and piss off the people that are making us rich!! And what’ll we strike over? I GOT IT! We’ll argue over how ta divvy up the money we are getting, FROM THE PEOPLE WE ARE PISSING OFF! Is it just me, or is the world’s collective I.Q. Just plunging ta new all time lows? I swear, I think someone released “Idiot Gas” into the atmosphere, and they are to scared ta tell us!
July 1st, 2010 at 8:45 am
At least the imbeciles here won’t blame THAT on the Glazers! They’ll say they are too Cheapand too poor ta buy “Idiot Gas”
July 1st, 2010 at 9:13 am
jarrett — you are repeating one of the most ridiculous statements typed on these boards. Think about what you just said.
July 1st, 2010 at 10:02 am
@Capt.Tim
1) The League would lockout the players if this thing goes down. The players won’t go on strike because they have the better side of the deal right now.
2) No reason to freak right now. The NFL is simply a business that’s going through discussions concerning it’s future, However, if you look at my earlier posts you’ll see that there’s a big signpost on the road to lockout coming up later this year.
July 1st, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Ah, sensiblefan, that wasn’t freaking out. It was mostly meant ta be funny. Might wanna change that to “humorlessfan”
Blaming it on the gas
July 1st, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Agree with Jarrett’s statement. The Bucs did have to do something to reach the salary cap floor. I will never get why people defend the Glazers for the last 5 years or so. Unless they are employed by the Bucs or are the Glazers themselves. That will forever baffle me.
July 1st, 2010 at 1:50 pm
Eric S — what Jarret said was this:
“The only reason kellen winslow got a big deal is because the glzers were forced to spend money so that they could reach the salary cap floor. Not because they thought he was the best tight end in the game”
That is moronic
July 1st, 2010 at 4:58 pm
They had to spend money to get to the salary cap floor, thus kellen got big deal so that bucs could reach said floor. What is so moronic. If the floor did not exist kellen would have played for his browns deal than he would be in the same boat as penn and ruud. We were required to spend a certain amount of money required hence kellens deal and claytons deal. Lay off words like moronic and dunb as well. I have never called you a name once. i respect your point of view i just do not agree with it. jimbuc you are better than that
July 1st, 2010 at 5:11 pm
jimbuc seriously you use examples such as winslow signing, clayton signing, bryant franchising, nugent etc. to prove the glazers arent cheap. you use these all the time. You conveniently do not mention that we were 40 milion under the salary and 28 million under the salary cap floor. Those moves brought us to the floor. The two years before that Bruce allen had to make silly contracts like for an example if you block ten kicks youll make 4 million extra dollars wink wink. Just so we could reach the floor. It is arguable that the glazers are even spending the minimum that they are required to spend the last 3 years. What is not arguable though is that they are being cheap.
July 1st, 2010 at 5:35 pm
I looked up the salary cap “Floor” and it states that teams have to spend 85 percent of the Cap. So the floor is only 15% less than the cap? That really isn’t a substantial difference! I’m not sure how the Bucs can be 40 Million or whatever people say it is below the cap.
Arguing about the best offensive weapon the Bucs have (When healthy) is just crazy. That was a good signing no matter how you try to slice it. Just like every other team; we’ve hit paydirt a few times and we’ve been screwed a couple of times as well.
July 3rd, 2010 at 12:36 pm
I think the biggest thing is that if we, as fans, get loud enough about our disdain for this crap to both sides maybe , just maybe they will get moving on this deal. They would certainly not want the fan backlash that would be looming if there is no football in 2011. I’ve already had it with this CBA crap. Both sides are greedy pigs. I think that they should build a luxury retirement home with nursing care available for the retired players who are broke. I’m sure they would get better digs and care than the retired soldiers at the soldiers homes nursing facilities around the nation. Fan backlash after a lockout could go as far as the other sports getting some of there market share back and with a strong year in soccer with the world cup could help that sport here in the states. I still only watch the NBA during the playoffs and finals and baseball on special occasions. My attitude about the NBA and the MLB stems from there past strikes and lockouts same with the NHL. The NFL should be wise and find some common ground and get it done. I’m certain that there are tons of fans like me who may just take a while to go back to the gridiron.