What’s Donald Penn’s Next Move?
June 17th, 2010
The ball is in the proverbial court of Bucs holdout Donald Penn. Will the Bucs left tackle make the ballsy yet unwise move to sit out the season? Or will he just blow off training camp and settle for a much lower salary?
In the latest TBO Bucs vlog, Anwar Richardson and Woody Cummings of the Tampa Tribune get into a spirited, emotional debate on what Penn’s next chess move should be.
Please click on the link above, and tell Joe who you side with, and more importantly, who makes the better case for Penn, Cummings or Richardson?
June 16th, 2010 at 6:57 am
That’s the difference between being a TEAM player vs. being a self-centered a-hole.
Penn is pissed – fine I understand that. With his attitude what do you think the odds of him being on the team, “long-term”? Slim & none; and Donald ain’t slim.
I don’t care how much you think the Bucs “owe” you anything – they don’t. If they don’t want to give you a long-term deal then OBVIOUSLY the organization doesn’t want you here in 2011 and beyond.
Sing the deal, show up for mandatory sessions, keep your mouth closed then once the 4-12 season is over sign yourself to a winning team next year.
Oh Thomas since you like using examples I guess I’ll throw an example to you: How about the contract the Jets offered Revis? How about THAT long-term deal? Think Penn’s agent would sign that one?
June 16th, 2010 at 7:49 am
Penn had what he believed to be deals two years in a row – but the team never presented him with the contract.
Also, re revis, sit back – I predict that the Jets will sign him long-term in the near future.
June 16th, 2010 at 8:14 am
I have no idea what Penn thinks he is going to gain by sitting out.
This is the most Ill-advised holdout since Eric Rhett.
June 16th, 2010 at 8:32 am
Penn is holding out on a team that isn’t committed to winning anyway.
For a holdout to work, the Bucs would actually have to care about being competitive.
They don’t.
June 16th, 2010 at 8:45 am
Eric:
And that is one of many reasons why the Bucs have Penn over a barrell.
June 16th, 2010 at 8:49 am
DumbLuck said: “Sing the deal, show up for mandatory sessions, keep your mouth closed then once the 4-12 season is over sign yourself to a winning team next year.”
You make him the bad guy then turn around and tell him to sign his deal and shut up??? So you want your cake AND eat it too?
At least you didnt claim that the Bucs were going to have a winning season, I’ll give you that.
Basically the Tampa Bay Buccaneers are telling him that he isnt part of their plan so no long term deal for you Penn.
And Ruud isnt a part of it either.
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers send a resounding message to those two players that they are not a part of the Bucs plans for 2011 by not signing medium to long term contracts… however, the most comical thing about the statement, as firm as it may be, the Buccaneers are a 3-13 team, a losing team, with a bottom of the league coaching staff and front office… cheap owners and rookies across the field… what makes the Buccaneers think that they have the luxary of letting NFL caliber starters just walk away? The Bucs dont sign free agents, so how do they replace 20 something veterans??? Through the draft?
There is NO plan. The message they sent about not signing free agents and re-signing their home grown developed talent is proving to be a convienient lie in regards to free agency inactivity.
Buccaneers message: Penn, Ruud: You are NOT in this poorly ran organizations future plans.
Penn and Ruud and their agents chuckle… as if the Buccaneers have any real leverage beyond the next 6 months. They also are salivating at signing a long term contact with a BETTER run organization… winners, not losers.
June 16th, 2010 at 8:51 am
I truly think the CBA is the biggest culprit to those players wanting extensions. The Bucs are backing themselves in a corner with all the we’re not broke talk. Once the CBA is finalized, all these players they say they want to keep should get paid or they will be exposed. Truly exposed.
June 16th, 2010 at 8:52 am
Eric,
For a holdout to work the team has to feel like the player is a long term solution…It’s becoming clearer by the day that the Bucs don’t view Penn as the Left tackle of the future for this team.
It dosn’t mean they don’t care about winning it means that maybe they don’t feel he is going to continue to play at the level he has been. Which by the way is good but its not spectacular…in my opinion after last year no one on this team should be expecting a long term deal.
June 16th, 2010 at 8:59 am
bucfanjeff:
The CBA is the singular issue. Players want cash to get through the lockout/strike. (Most) teams don’t want to sign guys to long-term deals because they have no clue what the salary cap will be. Sure, you can sign a player or two long-term for big cash. But you better pray the salary cap isn’t low. Otherwise, you just painted yourself into a corner of the smelliest public restroom known to man.
June 16th, 2010 at 9:08 am
Joe:
I would add on the CBA, it is a simple matter of negotiating leverage. Are the NFL’s negotiating interests served by giving players money to survive through a lockout? Of course not. That is part of the reason you see the hard stance on tenders. The NFL would be stupid to extend guys because it takes away their leverage during a lockout. I would even argue that the only reason you see some RFAs getting extended is just to avoid a collusion charge.
June 16th, 2010 at 9:36 am
JimBuc
“I would even argue that the only reason you see some RFAs getting extended is just to avoid a collusion charge.”
That is an excellent point.
June 16th, 2010 at 9:45 am
First off the NFL doesn’t sign players… individual organizations sign players based on i dividual team philosphies… the collusion allegation has too many holes because every team secretly wants to get better and will make exceptions… but now you are claiming that the secret collusion plan now involves SOME teams breaking ranks PURPOSELY just so the NFL, as you deem a solo outfit, doesn’t appear to be in the collusion they are exercising? So the NFL is in collusion with its elusive non-collusion reputation? Wouldnt that be DOUBLE COLLUSION? OMG!!!
Sounds like this isnt a case of NFL collusion, but JimBuc’s delusion!
Jimbo, stick to the larger NFL Colussion forums ok? You know where all the whacky’s with representatives of their own team discuss this secret, yet impossible to prove collusion allegation.
June 16th, 2010 at 10:07 am
RahDomDaBest,
If you think the owners haven’t had discussions about how to handle free agents and bolster their leverage for a pending lockout then you are naive.
The NFLPA just this week filed a lawsuit challenging the NFL tv contracts alledging collusion.
If one believes that then It would not be a stretch to jump to the assumption that they may be conspiring to not sign players to long term deals to give them more leverage in the case of a lockout….and if that is the case it would also not be a stretch to assume that to cover their tracks a few players would be given deals so that they can say that they were acting in good faith.
You are one of the people who are always saying the owners are lying. If you think they lie about every thing else. How can you be sure they wouldn’t lie about this?
June 16th, 2010 at 10:32 am
“that they may be conspiring to not sign players to long term deals”
What? LOL! You said conspiring.
I thought the REASON for not signing RFA’s and free agents was because of UNCERTAINTY? Isn’t that the choice words being flung around about not locking up Penn and Ruud?
And guess what, that persepctive of uncertainty alone will stand solid in court… because it is true.
The union is alledging collusion just to gain public acceptance, and put pressure on the owners to agree to a CBA… it’s a good tactic.
Now, as i agree that there is uncertainty, thinking otherwise has never been my stance, i don’t think the Bucs should use the CBA uncertainty as an excuse not to re-sign 2 of their starting, highly contributing and important players in the LT and MLB position… re-sign them in the face of the CBA, so the Plan will begin to start working now, not in 2012… letting key talent walk away is a total waste of the re-building processes time and more so the fans time. Look, the Bucs need to re-sign their starters so they won’t have so many needs next season. Lock em up!
And lets entertain your collusion delsuion for a minute… if the Tamap Bay Buccaneers were to lock up Barrett Ruud and Donald Penn to 3-5 year deals, home grown players, NOT ONE TEAM WOULD SERIOUSLY QUESTION THEM… Because it makes all the sense in the world to lock up 20 something starters developed from within. It’s only 2 guys… not all of their RFAs.
None of the other 31 teams would even blink if the Bucs did this… in fact they would approve of this move in their ever so secret collusion tea parties…. because it makes freakin sense… it is the essance of re-building the right way… not by over paying Albert Haynesworth.
So the collusion excuse along with the CBA excuse doesn’t hold water in this situation for Tampa………… and if the Bucs organization thinks that they are being loyal to their other NFL buddies by not signing Penn and Ruud, then they are yet again, GUILTY of POOR TEAM MANAGEMENT.
“Run it into the Ground Glazer Boys!!!”
June 16th, 2010 at 11:01 am
RahDom — I only had minimal hopes anyway.
June 16th, 2010 at 11:07 am
RahDom — at least I am not alone in my DELUSIONS about COLLUSION. Here you go (results of a 10 second Google search):
“Union explores possible collusion charges
In a move that should come as little surprise to those who have been tracking the developments in the ongoing labor battle between the NFL and the players’ union, multiple sources tell us that the NFLPA actively is exploring the possibility of filing collusion charges against the league regarding an overall lack of spending in free agency.
The union has been consulting with numerous agents to obtain insights regarding whether a case should be pursued — and whether evidence exists to support such a claim.”
[THIS PART IS FOR YOU RAHDOM:]
“Exhibit A very well could be the widespread use of letters by teams informing restricted free agents that their tender offers will be cut as of midnight on June 15. The Collective Bargaining Agreement doesn’t require the issuance of such warning letters, and we’re told that the text of the letters sent by various teams suggest a degree of coordination.
We’ve also heard from multiple sources that teams possibly were not more aggressive in the pursuit of restricted free agents due to concerns that they’d be dressed down at league meetings in March and May.
Whether that’s enough to prove collusion remains to be seen. At some point very soon, we’ll break down the various rules that would apply in the event that a collusion case is filed — and regarding the potential exposure the league would face if the union files collusion charges.
Or maybe it’s more accurate to say “when.”
June 16th, 2010 at 11:10 am
RahDomDaBest,
Oh i get it collusion and dillusion rhyme. Thats clever.
June 16th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
“…at least I am not alone in my DELUSIONS about COLLUSION.”
Yeah I confirmed that you aren’t alone… and that’s why i suggest you go spout about the NFL’s collusion tactics in the NFL Collusion forum. Don’t use that as an excuse to not lock up 2 important players.
Collusion and Uncertainty are not going to save the Bucs organization’s reputation in 2011, just after Penn and Ruud sign with other teams… what is an opportunity now, make it a missed opportunity, will be a huge mistake 6 months from now… and THEN, everyone will, EVEN TBO.com and Vacation Man will call out the Bucs for not sticking to their plan of re-signing their talent.
And guess who should get the blame? Not the players, who I’m sure will be villians by then, a la Antonio Bryant, but the Buccaneer Organization’s poor resource decisions to NOT lock up at least 2 NFL caliber starters.
June 16th, 2010 at 1:59 pm
RahDom — so your response is essentially that this is NOW about the Bucs “reputation?” OK.
By the way, you realize that the Bucs will have the first opportunity to sign either Ruud or Penn, which makes it very unlikely either would be stolen away. They certainly would not leave of their own doing, absent some ridiculous offeer from someone else. Ruud is a Tampa-2 MLB and he is in Tampa. Cannot do much better. Penn is an all but uncontested starting LT. He’s not going anywhere either, at least not just out of spite. Players (just like owners) are all about the money. They will all kiss and make-up.
June 16th, 2010 at 2:40 pm
Ah… so you say that Ruud and Penn have no where else to go.
How naive.
And you claim the Bucs will just sign them in Jan or Feb before Free Agency? But there will be a lockout in March… too much uncertainty…
The only thing the Bucs can hope for by that point in time, is that Ruud and Penn truely don’t have other options out of the 31 other teams… when the CBA finally gets hammered out… and if it takes until pre-season, a long off-season, all bets are off… and no, the Bucs won’t have first dibs, those guys will become UFA’s and press on with their bad selves.
Sure would be nice to have them locked up.
June 16th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
RahDom — So you agree that the Bucs will have all season to sign them, right? They are still RFAs, right? You are just worried that they might get away when a new CBA is signed. Why do you think they will automatically be UFA? In any event, glad to know that your actual concern is about an event that MIGHT happen MONTHS from now.
June 16th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
The Bucs have the opportunity to lock them up now… rather watch them walk away with what short sighted short term leverage they have currently for this season.
And there is NO WAY that Penn or Ruud will be RFA’s coming off of the new CBA deal if that is what you are insinuating. Ruud got screwed this year cause he was supposed to be a UFA this year… I’ll use a play from your book when you said Donald Penn will play this yeat 100% guareteed… well, Penn and Ruud will be UFA’s with a 100% assurance in 2011 after the new CBA is hammered out. Union would not allow it, period, no debate.
June 16th, 2010 at 5:08 pm
RahDom — I don’t disagree but you are talking about a new CBA –in 2011. If we even get that far down the road, the woners will not alow the CBA to just make everyone UFA without a chance to sign people. Same thing as you say for the players, just other side. By the way — and I am just asking because I do not recall — isn’t Penn a year away?
June 16th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
I really don’t know… just throwing stuff out there… seeing if you will actually let someone else have the last word!
LMAO.
June 17th, 2010 at 8:56 am
Listen to the raw Q and A WTB.com has with Mark Dominik – lot of candor (About Penn AND Clayton.) Very informative.
MD specifically said that the primary reason that DP isn’t getting a long term contract this season and is expected to play this year under his tender is because of his weight gain DURING the season last year and the degradation of his play as he got up to 370… 370 lbs…. (let that sink in for a moment.) Who does that DURING a season?
He also said that DP wouldn’t work with the staff trainers or nutrionists during that time either…
THAT’s a flag people……..
MD was very clear about this season for DP is to prove that he is committed to professional play – and he and the other 12 personnel who are up for contract are in it for the long run as core members of our team.
DP will be in the mandatory events and will be our starting LT come September. MD briefly mentioned the CBA as an issue but indicated that he would be working contracts of our personnel first (prior to engaging in FA in 2011.) If DP produces as expected – he’ll get his deal.
Interesting comment about Ruud when he came in to sign his tender… I really think DP and his agent could learn a lesson from the statement BR made at that time…
The ‘way things are done’ in these contract situations (as we’ve all seen many, many times) is if you want a new one and the club isn’t being cooperative you and your agent agree to not participate until the rubber meets the road. $100k to a multi-millionaire is like a $1000 to someone who makes $300k per year. Doesn’t sting much.
Forest for the trees analogy fits in well here.
June 17th, 2010 at 8:57 am
The mandatory thing about DP is my opinion – not from the audio.
June 17th, 2010 at 6:56 pm
Whats wrong with 370 pounds? Is Dominik a fatist?