The Pitfalls Of Drafting Brian Price
April 26th, 2010
When the Bucs picked UCLA defensive tackle Brian Price in the second round, it certainly raised eyebrows.
Let’s be honest, the Bucs made Gerald McCoy, a defensive tackle, their first round pick. Granted, the defensive line stunk last year but two defensive tackles with their first two picks?
There are two mindsets on this:
Glass half-full: The Bucs just went from a rotten defensive line to perhaps a dominant defensive line in a handful of hours.
Glass half-empty: The Bucs neglected other needs.
Former Bucs defensive end Steve White, who writes a weekly “Bull Rush” column for Joe, posted on his blog that he is sort of a glass half-empty kinda guy with this move. Though, in his report card for the Bucs draft on his own blog, White likes Price as a defensive tackle, but he thinks the Bucs made a mistake in picking him.
The 2nd round selection of Brian Price just doesn’t make any sense to me at all. I know that the media is reporting that the Bucs are saying they planned to take him all alone to pair him with Gerald McCoy but I just don’t believe it. OF COURSE the Bucs are going to say they planned it from the beginning lest they look incompetent, but I believe that Price just happened to be the highest guy on their board so they took him instead of stretching for need. Now in another year, in another situation, that would be perfectly fine and preferred in fact. But you can’t draft best available when your team has as many needs as ours does. By taking Price with our first pick in the 2nd round the Bucs made an on the field error in addition to a draft strategy error. Lets talk about each.
White goes on to explain in detail why Price was not a smart pick in the second round. White also studies the remaining of the Bucs draft in the same post.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:10 am
This is where supplementing the draft with some veteran talent comes in. If the Bucs can mangage to pick up via trade or waiver/free agency a decent veteran to rush off the edge then this pick is fine. Don’t know what the realistic possibilities are of acquiring Merriman or Umenyoira but those are two that come to mind.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:13 am
Looks like Radio Mushmouth is owed an apology!
April 26th, 2010 at 10:15 am
getting a dominant inside push on the D-LINE helps out the entire defense. Its a conservative pick, but very smart. Come on Steve. The goat safety we have will even benefit from this pick!!!
April 26th, 2010 at 10:22 am
I read Steve’e blog last night and he has a wealth of experience and many good reasons, but I don’t see this as a bad thing at all. Maybe this wasn’t the best draft to just take the best on the board, but the Bucs said Price was at the top when they picked him. What if McCoy isn’t as good as they hoped, or what if Miller has more nagging injuries? No one can predict the future, and it would have been awesome if they drafted Berry at #3 and then Price at #35, but who knew how the chips would fall, same with Benn. It is easy to Monday Morning QB their decisions, but I think the Bucs garnered much Fan enthusiasm and support with this draft, and taking 2 big DT’s reinforced how serious they were about the D line. We will see how it all plays out, but I feel very positive about their picks, and I think a whole lot of fans feel the same way. So maybe it was wrong to take Price, when they should have taken Benn, but I don’t really care. I think it will be very hard to say the team didn’t get much better over the last few days and Continuous Performance Improvement is a key to success in any business. I hope that over the course of the next few months that the McPrice combo will surprise Mr. White and change his mind on the Bucs taking them both. One thing is for sure. They are both Bucs now and that won’t change any time soon. Maybe Steve can get in there and teach them with Sapp. I know he says the Bucs haven’t asked him to coach, but sometimes when you feel strongly about something you have to step up and grab it, no matter how much resistance you encounter. Steve, please call Warren and help him with his consulting role for these 3 young studs, including Miller. Stop complaining and make some lemonade for us. It’s your team too. Thx, BMA
April 26th, 2010 at 10:30 am
Steve makes some really good points. The Bucs saying Price was “the plan” all along makes no sense. He may have been the best available on their board, and for that reason, it’s not a bad pick. However, for a team that has so many needs, about all it does is provide insurance in case Miller or McCoy are injured are turn out to be busts. Otherwise, they’ve just created a problem for themselves having to try and get those guys on the field — kind of like the idiotic RB rotation last year.
I think the Bucs listen to the public a lot more than some may think. As Steve mentioned, it may have been better to draft Berry at #3, the Price in the 2nd. I think that would have been a smarter move, but the Berry pick wouldn’t have been popular with McCoy still on the board. I also think they dumped the 5th round pick to avoid comparisions with Holmes. It makes no sense that they didn’t get back into the 5th round.
So, was it a bad draft, probably not. But, could it have been better, definitely.
I can’t wait to see if the lovers start attacking Steve over his analysis!
April 26th, 2010 at 10:31 am
What Steve is failing to mention in the fact that Hovan and Sims were are starting tackles last year. How isn’t 2 DT’s a need? The Brian Price pick was AMAZING, enough said.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:32 am
@ Louie. Are you insane?? DT is nothing like HB. Your rotating 2 positions at all times.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:33 am
The lovers were all over Mushmouths case for saying the exact same thing!
Some even stated “wait till Steve White comes out and make you look foolish”……………blah blah blah.
C’mon people man up and apologize!
April 26th, 2010 at 10:36 am
@BigMacAttack
Here’s the thing, I am not saying that the combo can’t work. I am saying that its frought with possible problems and that getting two 3 techniques does not really fix whats wrong with our defense. That doesn’t mean I won’t be pulling for them. Hell if the Bucs were to call me to help with them or anybody else on the roster I would be there in a minute. I offered up myself unsolicited to help Gaines and I would do that again as well if I thought any of the guys in particularly could benefit from it. But I have to keep reminding that when I blog its a different thing from just being a fan. There are a lot of reasons to be excited about this draft. I made sure to point out the abilities of pretty much all the guys we took this year along with my criticisms. In fact Im not so sure that Mike Williams won’t be better than Arrelious Benn when its all said and done. But having said all that the fact that we haven’t been active in free agency means this draft had to be about more than just getting some good players, it also had to be about plugging holes. We didn’t get the job done in that way as well as I would have liked and of course the Price/McCoy pairing isn’t exactly guaranteed to work out. Its not like I gave the Bucs an F, all I did was look realistically at what we had, what we needed, and what we ended up with. In that light we could have and probably should have done a little bit better than we did ON PAPER at least. I still believe strongly that we need a blocking TE if our running game is ever going to work and I also believe we aren’t good enough to be spending a 6th round pick on a punter with other guys who might contribute still on the board.
It is what it is.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:42 am
Apologize for what??? How can you judge this decision when neither player has even suited up, much less played a down in Tampa. I’m giving Rah/Dom the benefit of the doubt until it is proven otherwise. It will be funny if White and Crowder both get double digit sacks and the Bucs end up in the Top 10 against the run. I’m sure Barrett Ruud loves what they did. The Bucs defense looked pretty good after Raheem took over and I can’t believe that picking Price over say, Taylor Mays was a bad move.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:42 am
@Steve
Do you think the bucs should unload Hovan and Sims?
April 26th, 2010 at 10:44 am
Louie,
Take a break from trying to disprove the luner landing and finding JFK’s real killer and whatever other conspiricies you have going right now….
You haven’t got a clue dude. They picked Mccoy because they have said all along that the d-line had to improve. He was the best player on the Board and a near perfect fit for their defense. Not because they were worried about what the fans would say if they didn’t.
And you honestly think that they care if you compare a pick with Holmes? You have an over inflated sense of yourself if you think that the Bucs make draft picks based on what people like you are going to think they should have done. If they listend to what all the whiners like you say they would have traded for Marshall and Holmes in the first place.
As for Steve’s comments I would never pretend to have even a tenth of the Insight or football knowledge of Steve. He makes insightful, well thought out and well articulated commentary. (unlike the rest of us hacks on here)
I guess i can just say that while i see his point I can also see where the Bucs are coming from with the pick. Only time will tell wich side is right.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:45 am
We just had a terrific draft. Almost all pundits have given Grade A to the Bucs for this draft. Yet here we are still harping negative crap. Are you people kidding me? Are you serious? The absolute weakest parts of our team (DL and WR) were addressed with “potentially” great players. Get your asses on the wagon or get the hell off. No draft is perfect! No team gets exactly what they want, when they want it. And no team hits 100% on any draft.
Rotating fresh DTs to push the middle of the line will enable our DEs to go one-on-one and prevent the QBs from stepping up and avoiding them.
Great draft! Great selections! I agree with most of the analyst. Grade A Bucs!
April 26th, 2010 at 10:46 am
@Eric
They have no choice but to unload one or both of them. I mean I guess they could keep Sims around because his salary is smaller in case of emergency/injury. But the Bucs pretty much have to have this 3 man rotation going with McCoy/Price/Miller at this point. I know many times teams go into games with 7 D Linemen active. Usually thats 4 ends and 3 tackles with one end being a guy who can play inside as well and play some special teams. Why keep Sims or Hovan around if its likely neither would be active on game day? And from their perspective why stay on a team where you were a starter and now won’t see any game time even as a sub? Id say its a forgone conclusion that they are probably both gone one way or another.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:48 am
The difference between Steve and RMM is that Steve has credibility and he doesn’t bash everything that Raheem and Dom do just for the sake of being negative.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:50 am
@gruss222
I will tell you like I tell everybody, if you want a fan boy to tell you what you want to hear just skip over my posts every single time. I am going to tell the truth as I see it whether people like it or not. Being a fan doesn’t mean you have to close your eyes and swallow whatever is shoved down your throat. It means pulling for your team while acknowledging their short comings in my book. Some people can deal with that and some can’t. The funny thing is it shifts damn near every time I post cuz like I said in my draft evaluation some folks say I’m too negative and then there are others who swear Im a homer for the Bucs who is always too positive.
I kinda like it that way though, cuz as long as people from both camps are throwing shots at me it probably means I’m doing something right.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:52 am
Yes, there are other needs on this Buc team. However Dom decided that instead of making the DT position better, he completely sured up the position and (hopefully) making this a dominate force on the D. From what I have been hearing DT takes time to learn in the NFL, so why not bring in the guys you want sooner rather than later, so they can grow and learn together.
They are still rebuilding and no one should expect a Super Bowl Season next year. Personally, I love this draft and can’t wait until next season.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:55 am
I think it was a great pick. One of the DT’s may not work out, there are injuries, and it was the weakest part of our team next to WR’s. Every draftee isn’t going to make it in the pro’s and we’re not going to solve all problems in one draft. THAT is the reality of it all, so why not beef up while we can. We all know RB is coming in next years draft.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:55 am
Keep it up, Mr. White. Don’t let these guys get to you. I’m actaully glad they draft two tackles, partially because you’ll be around to break it down for us next year.
April 26th, 2010 at 10:56 am
Well nobody is man enough to admit it, but I tip my hat to Mr. Mushmouth for, within minutes of the selection of Price, questioning it along very similar lines to what Mr. White has stated.
A bit ironic considering the history, but I say rock on Mr. Mushmouth!
April 26th, 2010 at 10:57 am
Is this the same Steve White who also thought we should draft a certain safety with the #3 pick?
April 26th, 2010 at 10:59 am
@d-money: I started that paragraph with “I think…”. I don’t have any facts to back it up — it’s my OPINION. I just think it’s ironic they traded that 5th round pick and didn’t do anything to replace it in such a deep draft.
I wish you lovers would quit the attacks. I know you guys think Dominik and Morris are the 2nd coming, but I just happen to believe (again my OPINION) these guys don’t have their act together nearly as much as you think they do. Case and point: all of last year’s screw-ups. When they start winning, I’ll get off their ass. Winning is the ultimate test, plain and simple. The Cleveland game is the next BIG test.
April 26th, 2010 at 11:02 am
Steve,
I always enjoy your insight. I just got the feeling the Bucs felt comfortable with their DEs such as Moore, Crowder, and possibly Bennett. I really don’t know much about Lorig.
Here’s my question. I thought when Raheem took over the defense, the d-line wasn’t always in a traditional Tampa 2 alignment. It seems to me Raheem is interested in using various defensive fronts. I’m assuming Price might offer more flexibility than maybe Miller. Are we to assume as fans that Miller is a lot more suited to being a NT than an UT? Also, from your expertise is Miller more of a run plugger than a polished pass rusher? I guess I envision to start the season as Miller playing on run downs and Price playing passing downs. I see McCoy playing almost all plays with brief rests.
April 26th, 2010 at 11:03 am
And hell while I’m on a roll pissing people off let me add this which I didn’t put in my post. A lot of pundits will compare having Price as a nosetackle to when we drafted Booger. The comparison is farcical and or a bad omen when you think it through. First off Booger was a true nosetackle. He had incredible speed though, something neither McCoy nor Price have at the same level so some may have projected him as a undertackle as well. However Booger played his best ball in college and in the NFL when he was at nose. When he got the big contract the Bucs knew they couldn’t afford both he and Sapp so they shipped Sapp off which if things were to go well for both Price and McCoy will probably happen to one of them as well down the road. But the problem was that the Bucs thought the pay check made the 3 technique. I love Booger like a brother but he did not have the kind of pass rush moves that Sapp had and wasn’t as natural with it. Eventually the Bucs traded him to Indy and guess where Indy played him? At nose tackle. And you know what? He helped them win a Superbowl at nose.
But another thing to realize is that Booger got here when we still had Brad Culpepper who was one of the best technique sound nose tackles I have ever seen especially for what was considered an undersized guy back then. Booger wasn’t thrown into the fire fully until he had learned many tricks of the trade from watching Pep. Who is going to teach Price? If you think playing nose in a 4-3 is easy especially for guys who are just over 300 pounds like Price and Booger are/were you’re crazy for real.
Now does that mean Price is gonna fail? Hell no it doesn’t. He may come in here and tear the league up and I hope he does. But it does mean drafting him does not equal drafting Booger. Too different guys and two totally different situations. If our situation today was more like it was when we drafted Booger and we had just as much talent at other positions and also had someone for Price to learn under I wouldn’t mind all that much. But we don’t and there in lies my problem with it.
April 26th, 2010 at 11:04 am
Good point d-money.
Why can’t Demar Dotson be that Blocking TE? He’s huge and pretty athletic too. I bet he can catch too. Show me a B-Ball player that can’t catch or run. I agree that if the Bucs were on a 1 year plan they should have looked at other needs, but I don’t think they are in a hurry, just looking to improve. A punter is a weapon and look at what Scifre does to opponents. If this punter is a stud that pins teams down near the goal line, a 6’th round pick is a steal. Belichick took a punter before the Bucs and Dom said there were only 2 good ones in the draft so he had to take the other. Punter was a huge need. I would keep Sims over Hovan.
Steve,
I think you do a fantastic job and we appreciate it greatly. Although you are probably 100% right about the DT’s, I am choosing to wear my rose colored glasses for a little while longer. With all the bad that went on last season, I want to try and block out anything negative, at least for now.
April 26th, 2010 at 11:04 am
I have to agree with Steve about the Bucs wasting the 5th round pick and wasting the 6th round on “a punter?”
But I wholeheartly DISAGREE with Steve about the overall grade for the Bucs – C+ ?? WTF?
To me the selection of Price indicates that Morris/Dominik were on the same page – upgrade the DEFENSE first; said that in 2009 as well.
Steve’s whole premesis is that according to Steve the Bucs should have taken Berry @ #3 – that would have been STUPID! You don’t pass on McCoy for Berry because that would have meant Raheem thought,
“Oh I’m ok with Hovan/Sims/Miller but I’ve given up on Sabby the goat”
I WOULD have gone ballistic on passing up McCoy as would 90% of other Bucs fans.
Secondly your ASSUMPTION that Price would have fallen is just plain dumb. There are many other teams who would have traded up to snatch Price if he had fallen any further; making the assumption that no other team would is just niave.
Third your “rotation” scheme that you talk about is just your assumption. Just because Steve White wants to rotate players like that doesn’t mean that is what Raheem has planned so yes if YOU were DC it wouldn’t make sense but given what I saw from Morris as DC for the last 6 games last year I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
With regard to your thoughts about upgrading at other positions – I’m with you on that but you can only do so much with a draft. While you give the Bucs a C+ at this point I’d give the Bucs a B+; however once training camp starts it will be a whole lot clearer.
Finally what happened to drafting the best available? If the Bucs D-Line wasn’t as miserable as it was I would understand going with DE earlier but with McPrice starting I feel that it will improve the DE and hopefully allow Ruud to return to 2008 form.
Sorry Steve – you’ve got the actual experience and I respect that, but you made too many assumptions for my taste.
April 26th, 2010 at 11:07 am
@Pewter Warthog
Not sure why you are asking that question when I put the fact that I preferred drafting Berry at #3 IN THE FRIGGIN POST
Sheesh folks don’t be so lazy that you don’t click the link before you start spouting off.
April 26th, 2010 at 11:08 am
@Sgw94
What are you smoking bud? You’re talking about getting rid of McCoy/Price because we won’t be able to afford them when neither one has signed a contract yet! Since they’re 1-2 rounders they’ll be on a 5-year deal yet you’re talking about waaaaaay down the road.
Let’s focus on rebuilding in 2010 first shall we?
April 26th, 2010 at 11:10 am
Steve,
I was going to reply on your site, but I’ll just do it here instead.
Your basic point is that is doesn’t make sense to draft two people for the same position (UT). However, if you’ve got a three man rotation (which is what we used last year and what you yourself just said MOST teams use) then you’re always going to have one guy that is playing both NT and UT.
Price himself said that he is comfortable playing either position and stated that he actually played almost every position on the D-Line last year.
In my mind, McCoy is strictly a UT and Miller is strictly an NT. That leaves Price to be the guy that can spell both of them.
The thing is, let’s say we had drafted one of the top DEs instead. Best case is that he would go into a three (or four) man rotation at DE, right? Stylez is very good and you know they’re intent on developing Moore at LDE.
So what’s the difference between drafting a guy to be your third DT vs. third DE? Especially if the DT is rated much higher on your board.
I actually think the Bucs were looking to pick up one of the top CBs at #35, but given the run on them in the 1st round, there probably just wasn’t one that would have justified passing on Price.
Anyone agree with me?
(P.S. I DO agree with your point that maybe it would have been better to draft Benn at 35 and Price at 42. My guess is that they had a hunch that Philly would snatch up Price at #37.)
April 26th, 2010 at 11:10 am
Louie,
Who is attaking who? I don’t think Rah and Dom are the second coming. I was and still am a huge Gruden fan. I was more pissed than anyone to see him fired.
I do however think that Raheem in time will be a good coach and I think that this was, on paper, an excellent draft. Thus showing that maybe Dominick isn’t quite the dumb ass that he’s been made out to be.
You are allowed to have your opinions as am I. It’s just that some of the theories and ideas that you guys throw around are just ridiculous.
April 26th, 2010 at 11:11 am
@Eric – hey stop being a pot-stirrer that’s MY job around here! 😉
But seriously Radio MM is just a chronic hater – it’s just coincidence he agreeded with Steve (who’s just a little misguided)
April 26th, 2010 at 11:12 am
Mr. Lucky,
I think he meant getting rid of Simms/Hovan.
April 26th, 2010 at 11:14 am
@Matt – EXCELLENT Post.
You nailed it about why the Bucs took Price – Something our esteemed Sgw neglected to think about.
I’m especially with you on the CB – they went FAST
One other thing to think about – taking Benn at 35 then leaves Miller more vulnerable to be snatched up (this is the BEST value pick the Bucs made)
April 26th, 2010 at 11:15 am
Hey Lucky
“Smokem if you got em, babe.”
Marge Schott
What about the Pass rush games??? Do McCoy and Price have much experience with these??? I heard that our players often struggled with those last season. At least one of these DT’s has to make Ruud a better player. BTW, can we go ahead and give Penn the contract he has earned????
April 26th, 2010 at 11:16 am
Mr. Lucky – Why is C+ such a bad grade? If C is average or satisfactory like on most grading scales. ..Can’t disagree with Steve on the Price pick on the surface, and that’s all we’re talking about here is speculation
April 26th, 2010 at 11:20 am
I agree about the Cb’s too.
Why not an occasional 5 man D-line with Miller at NT with McPrice on both sides? Fanning has good speed that might allow leaving Tjax alone.
???????????
April 26th, 2010 at 11:21 am
@MrLucky
You know you and I get along usually so I hate to do this, but I have to remind you and everybody else that “Reading is fundamental!”
You said:
“Secondly your ASSUMPTION that Price would have fallen is just plain dumb. There are many other teams who would have traded up to snatch Price if he had fallen any further; making the assumption that no other team would is just niave.”
What my post actually said
Then you said:
“Third your “rotation” scheme that you talk about is just your assumption. Just because Steve White wants to rotate players like that doesn’t mean that is what Raheem has planned so yes if YOU were DC it wouldn’t make sense but given what I saw from Morris as DC for the last 6 games last year I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. ”
Here’s Mark Dominick’s quote included in my post
Look, I go through the trouble of including links and quote to bolster my case in most of my posts, the least yall can do is read the shit and quit pulling complaints out your ass if you don’t agree.
Isn’t that fair?
April 26th, 2010 at 11:22 am
@Kez – C+ isn’t a bad grade but I seriously LIKE the Bucs picks.
I thought “The Price is Right”
Steve’s just spouting sour grapes because the Bucs passed on Berry.
Can you HONESTLY say you’d be happier with Berry & Price than McCoy and Price?
HONEST?
I wouldn’t.
finally you’re right this is all SPECULATION until we see how these kids perform on the field. Look at Atlanta last year drafting Peria Jerry who goes on IR in the preseason!
My biggest disagreement with Sgw94 is that he assumes Price would have dropped and that the Bucs should have taken Benn first. I don’t think Price would’ve been available at that point.
I DO agree with Sgw94 about wasting the 5th round pick and using the 6th rounder on a punter – heck I’d rather seen Myron Rolle (FSU safety) taken before the punter. However on the 6-7th rounders it’s a LOT of speculation
April 26th, 2010 at 11:24 am
Anybody who gives this draft less than A+ is Satan!
April 26th, 2010 at 11:26 am
“Anybody who gives this draft less than A+ is Satan!” lol
April 26th, 2010 at 11:30 am
@Sgw94
First off – I did click on your link/blog and read your entire article. As usual you did a great job. I’ve written before that you are THE best guest poster here on JBF.
In the first example you wrote that if Price were taken then the DT from Texas would be available – that’s fine but I’d rather have Price than Houston. Your assumption that they’re interchangable (Price/Houston) isn’t the same as my assumption.
The second part with your quote from Dominik assumes that the Bucs will continue to rotate the way they’ve done in the past – a valid and probably accurate assumption.
However why NOT rotate NT/UT like Matt suggested? Without any of these guys in training camp everyone (you & I) are making assumptions. You are looking at the glass 1/2 empty while I see it 1/2 full.
I never said you were WRONG but I simply disagree with your assumptions. I read it boss.
April 26th, 2010 at 11:30 am
Man, I hope some of these guys don’t read Steve’s post about the schedule. I think their heads will explode!
April 26th, 2010 at 11:31 am
Steve, I read the whole column, and it was long. I give you credit, because you don’t mince words, and you are extremely thorough in your analysis, always.
I guess we just need to hope for the best.
Thanks, guys, enjoyed it, but I gotta get to work now. I blew off Thurs and Fri and I’m backed up.
Satan! LOL
April 26th, 2010 at 11:32 am
@Matt
There are the two main reasons why I don’t believe that will happen.
1. Because Dominik himself said Price is going to be the nosetackle.
2. Because you can’t, CAN’T draft a guy that high in the 2nd round to be a career backup which is effectively what you are saying Price would be, no?
April 26th, 2010 at 11:36 am
@Mr Lucky
Technically they call what you did “lying”. You said I assumed Price would drop. I didn’t and made known what the contingency would be. You said I assumed what the rotation would be. I did not, I got it straight from Dominicks mouth. Now maybe the GM who made the pick is wrong about how he will be used and he certainly could be. But I will trust his word over Matt’s proposal for now, how bout that?
April 26th, 2010 at 11:36 am
Steve is right.
I thought give the Bucs a high B+ is just wrong considering they traded a 5th rounder to move up 3 spots alone. Then they drafted a punter in round 6 in a deep draft.
That is def a C at best.
Tampa prob should have just drafted with all 7 picks as well, but it is nice to get a 5th next year… I just don’t get how Dom thinks though.
Everything Steve said I agree with. And I like our draft picks too… with the Bucs having so many needs, how can you NOT like the picks.. we have needs everywhere… lol
I do like Price. I like having DT pressence… hopefully, Price is strong enough to play NT and rotate to the 3 Tech while Miller spells at NT… or put Price at DE to get push on the outside on weaker RTs. It’ll be fun to watch. I am more opptomistic about having depth on the line.
I wish they wouldn’t have traded teh 5th and drafted a punter with the 6th when they had 5…. 7th rounders. They drafted the P because New Engalnd drafted 1 in the fifth… I know that was Dom’s reasoning… I just know it.
April 26th, 2010 at 11:48 am
@Sgw97 – Whoa there! If what you inacurately say I wrote is lying that I don’t know what that makes YOU!
In your Blog you wrote, “Notice anything? All but one of those teams who chose between our pick at #35 and our pick at #42 run a 3-4 scheme which isn’t really much of a fit for Brian Price. On the other hand just about every team in the interim needed a wide receiver. I am not saying we definitely had to take Arrelious Benn at #35 or that Price would have definitely fallen to us at #42 if we had. What I am saying is that it was more likely than the opposite scenario which was actually our reality when we picked Price first then had to spend a 5th round pick just to move up 3 spaces and pick Benn.”
Now between that paragraph and the two prior ones it sure seems to me that you were implying a few things:
A. That teams 36-41 would NOT trade down
B. That since teams 36-41 wouldn’t trade they wouldn’t select Price either because they all play a 3-4.
Secondly when using Dominik’s quotes you say that you trust the GM’s word but at the same time the HC/DC said the Bucs would return to a Tampa 2 with a twist.
In fact in YOUR blog you were so wishy-washy about it you wrote
“My biggest question is this. How exactly is this “rotation” supposed to work? Last year Chris Hovan and Ryan Sims started and then Miller would spell each of them in the rotation. It was relatively simple because we played left and right defensive tackles last season rather than an undertackle and nosetackle that flip sides according to the call and the offensive formation. So now when Miller comes in to spell Price I would assume that he would be at nose and McCoy would stay at 3 technique. But what happens when Miller spells McCoy? Does Price then go to undertackle and Miller strictly plays nose? Or will Miller play 3 technique so Price can continue to develop as a nosetackle?”
Meaning you don’t know. BUT you make a lot of assumptions don’t you?
Trust me Steve my typing may suck but my English comprehension doesn’t. I don’t LIE but I can note when people/posters publish inaccuracies based on false assumptions.
So how do YOU define is….?
April 26th, 2010 at 11:50 am
A lie is a lie Mr Lucky, either you own it or you don’t. The great thing is everybody here can see the convo and judge for themselves. Im good with that. Peace
April 26th, 2010 at 11:51 am
The reason I upgraded the Bucs to B+ is because of the VALUE they obtained in Miller and not trading away McCoy or selecting Berry.
In addition I have to admit that I did set my sights much lower than last year as well.
April 26th, 2010 at 11:53 am
Steve if this is our biggest disagreement with the Bucs – things are looking up. Don’t like you calling me a lier but that’s your perception. Heck I’ve been called much worse.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:24 pm
Steve,
Good points, but I am still stoked because of our picks. You are right, I think with our picks, McCoy, Price, Benn Williams, hell even the punter are all starters. We are still rebuilding. Hovan was just released, Sims and Clayton are not too far behind him. Looks like BJ Askew may get released as well. Bottomline, what I like about it is that Dominik has a plan and he is executing it. A plus for the draft
April 26th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
@ Steve White. Way to show how classy you are by calling me a “loser” after i said I disagree with you. Carry on Steve, your just digging your grave. Because believe it or not, when you aren’t very well known, and you piss someone off who knows many people in the area, you aren’t making a smart move.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:27 pm
To reference my previous post, Steve pulled his sophomoric stunt on Twitter.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Uh oh Steve. You made Elijah mad.
I guess that means he’s going to ruin you…lol
Because I’m sure Steve didn’t meet his share of people in the Tampa Bay area playing in the NFL for 7 years.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
lol @ little kids making threats. Shoo fly
April 26th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Sgw94
Sorry but I don’t like being called a lier. Something was bothering me when I re-read your post and your answers here:
Here Sgw94 wrote: “…I got it straight from Dominicks mouth. Now maybe the GM who made the pick is wrong about how he will be used and he certainly could be. But I will trust his word…”
REALLY?
In YOUR BLOG you posted:
Quote from Dominik, “Dominik said the idea of drafting both McCoy and Price and teaming them with Miller in a three-man rotation was something he envisioned while preparing for the draft.”
but you also wrote, “The 2nd round selection of Brian Price just doesn’t make any sense to me at all. I know that the media is reporting that the Bucs are saying they planned to take him all alone to pair him with Gerald McCoy but I just don’t believe it. OF COURSE the Bucs are going to say they planned it from the beginning lest they look incompetent, but I believe that Price just happened to be the highest guy on their board so they took him instead of stretching for need
So you believe Dominik’s quotes when it supports your assumptions but you don’t believe Dominik when it doesn’t meet your needs?
Technically what you did is called B.S.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
Post delted for extreme profanity. ….No reason for the cursing. There’s a lot of reasons Joe doesn’t want profanity on the site, in addition to their being no reason for it.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
Here a rookie
There a rookie
Everywhere a rookie!
This is gonna work just great.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:36 pm
wow Steve PLAYED in the NFL? Who the fu*k cares? 95% of NFL players don’t know who the fu*k Steve White is.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Hell most buc players probably don’t know he is.. and he played for, and covers they’re damn team! So for him to call me a “loser” under the circumstances is pathetic. I’m 19 years old for christ sakes, what is a 19 year old even capable of accomplishing??
April 26th, 2010 at 12:39 pm
@Mr Lucky
I was willing to let it go but since you won’t….
Here is the thing, I tried to let you off the hook at first by allowing for the fact that you might not have read the post. You yourself came back and said you DID read it so in that case you lied, plain and simple. Hell I don’t care that you don’t agree with me, plenty of people don’t, but you lied about what was actually in my blog post. Its a fact that I didn’t assume Price would fall to us. Its also a fact that I didn’t assume that there would be a 3 man rotation, I got it from Dominick’s own words. Now you can try to parse every other part of the blog post that you don’t agree with to try to distract from both of those points yet they will still remain. Now the thing of it is you could have said you were mistaken, you didn’t read it, your bad or what have you. Instead you chose to act like you didn’t say something that was factually untrue. I can’t make you man up and own it, but by the same token I don’t have to sit back and act like it didnt happen either.
Now like I said everybody can see what both you and I wrote, its all there in black and white. Im comfortable with that, if you aren’t then that’s on you.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Elijah dude..no offense but if you want respect go find Aretha Franklin.
An internet blog isn’t exactly the place to go complaining about respect.
If you haven’t noticed no one really respects anyone on the internet. Thats the fun of it.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
The irony of Steve White using the term “man up”. HAHAHAHA!!!
April 26th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
Steve,
First, I want to say I’m sorry about the hate that’s going your way in this post.
Second, your points are pretty solid. Dom did say that Price was going to be a NT, but I think that was mostly in response to ‘Surely he can’t be the UT, that’s McCoy’s job!’
I would be surprised if Price ended up playing only at NT this year. And, unless he has an outstanding camp, would be surprised if he was a Day 1 starter. But I do think he’ll be the starter either at some point this year or, at worst, Day in 2011. I agree that you don’t draft at #35 to be a career backup.
However, I think we’re kinda of arguing a slight point here. If you do have a true three man rotation, the term ‘starter’ is largely ceremonial. That being said, I don’t think we WILL have a true three man rotation, because you can be damn sure that the 50 million dollar man will be playing the lions share of the snaps at UT….leaving Price/Miller to battle it out at NT, to an extent.
One thing I don’t think anyone has mentioned is that I would not be surprised AT ALL if we regularly had a Moore-Miller-McCoy-Price line on situations like a third and short or a goalline defense. I’m all for putting your best players on the field at the same time if it make sense to.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Steve White.. Best known for wasting a roster spot on the Buccaneers for 4 seasons. Then had 1 decent season in rotation that capitalized on our 2 monster DT’s and Simeon Rice. And people act like his career should be used as an argument, in his knowledge of them game. I remember hoping the Bucs would release this fool back in like 2000.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
@Elijah Joyce Sorry man, but if you don’t know who Steve White is…I don’t think you’re a very big Bucs fan.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:50 pm
Who said anything about Buc fans knowing who he is? He was on the team for 5+ seasons. I am aware fans know the guy.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:52 pm
@Elijah Joyce Oh, so now you do…okay.
And FWIW, yes, I do value the opinion of someone who played seven years for this exact team in this exact scheme more than some random person on the Internet.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:54 pm
The point isnt if you trust my opinion over his. Its about Steve being a rude jerk, who thinks he has room to act that way. WHEN HE DOESN’T! Its one thing to have an off the wall opinion. But, to insult someone isn’t tolerable in his position.
April 26th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
Damn, perhaps we should drive a stake through Mr. White’s heart for his blasphemous opinions.
Although I don’t think I wanna be first in line to give that a whirl.
What the hell is the matter with you people?
April 26th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
@Matt
I think you are slowly coming around to my point. That point being that McCoy is going be a starter no matter what and that having used that high of a 2nd round pick Price pretty much has to be as well. And that’s why I asked on the blog how the rotation to go. Despite what someone said the thing I DIDN’T want to do was to assume exactly how the rotation will go because I look at it as a major issue. Will Price ever actually get time at undertackle when McCoy goes out or will he stay at nose when Miller comes in and play strictly that for the majority of his early down reps? Or is he allowed to play some undertackle with Miller at nose? And if that happens what if Price is actually better at undertackle than McCoy initially? Hell for that matter what if Miller is a better nose than Price? Are you really going to sit a guy drafted that high when leading up to the draft one of the main talking points was how many starters we needed to get in order for it to be called a success?
These are the things I asked on my blog and I think how the answers play out will go a long way in how the defense and each player performs this year.
As for the hate, don’t worry about that. If I didn’t have haters I would be doing something wrong 😉
April 26th, 2010 at 12:57 pm
@Elijah – man what R U smoking dude?
Steve’s written some of the best defensive analysis for Bucs fans.
You come on here trying to trash the man’s playing career? Why?
You say Steve is immature … go back and read what YOU’VE written
April 26th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Post deleted because the author is a supreme jerk who hates JoeBucsFan.com so much that he can’t stay away.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
Aye, yall don’t have to take up for me. Here’s what the whiny bitch who is here complaining tweeted at me unsolicited.
I could care less what that loser thinks. He’s just mad cuz he only has 15 followers and I wouldn’t use his screenname on twitter when I called him a loser to help him get more. LOL I say ignore trolls and lets talk football. If he really has beef with me I’m easily found 🙂
April 26th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
“Looks like Radio Mushmouth is owed an apology!”
LOL that’s right Eric !!
..and since most of the people here lick Steve WHite’s boots , and hang on his every word , that means they now have to admit I was right.
It was a stupid pick . Even more stupid is that we are going to waste his talent and stick him at nose-tackle , where he can eat doubles all day long.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
@ Steve – Man you need to re-read my first post.
I didn’t lie about what was in your blog; I did what Joe does every day, I gave my impression about what you wrote.
I didn’t lie about anything and I do take it personally when someone implies that I do.
We happen to disagree and that’s cool – personal attacks; not cool.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
This Elijah dude is a real douche.
Elijah : You say you’re 19 that means you were 4 or 5 when Steve started with the BUcs and 10 when he left so I don’t expect you to remember his playing days… but the man knows his football and you obviously are just a spoiled little brat who is pissed that someone put him in his place.
Sorry buddy you’ll learn that the world doesn’t always go your way.
For now you should just let it go because you sound like a fool.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
“He’s just mad cuz he only has 15 followers and I wouldn’t use his screenname on twitter when I called him a loser to help him get more.”
You think I care about Twitter way more than I actually do, look at who I am following. It is just football players, I just use twitter to keep up with football news DUMB ASS!!
“If he really has beef with me I’m easily found ”
So am I. I will gladly you my phone number. I have no interest in physical contact though, I will admit you would likely whoop this ass but that isn’t the point is it?
April 26th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
@ RadioMM – apologies? Get real dude.
All this writing is just academic until these kids get on the field.
Dominik said he had a plan of taking McCoy & Price. Guru Steve White wrote that he believes what Dominik said but disagree’s – that’s cool too.
But stupid? That was in 2009 when they fired Chucky for Morris.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:11 pm
Where the heck is Joe?
April 26th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Probably busy typing his name in third person. This site fuc*ing blows as a whole. It’s a Buccaneer tabloid.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
@Mr Lucky
On the subject of personal attacks, you used the words dumb stupid and naive to describe things you claim I did or inferred. Also you said this.
Now its true that this could have been your interpretation and everybody is welcome to their own, but I really have a hard time understanding this statement at all. And I think most folks who read my post would have a hard time understanding it too. That premise if you can call it that only came up once in the whole post when I was talking about how much I liked Brian Price. But if anything the premise was that we drafted Benn and Price out of order and it cost us a 5th round pick that we could have used on a safety like Larry Assante or Kam Chancellor which is exactly what I put in the post. You got so many things factually wrong in your comment that I figured you couldn’t have possibly read the whole post. After you said you did its hard to classify what you said as anything other than a lie. I mean I didn’t actually call you a liar, I don’t know if you lie all the time or not. I called what you did lying and it was. But I don’t see how thats any stronger language than stupid dumb or naive, especially when its true.
Sorry.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
Advice for Steve White..
You want to be taken seriously? Leave this bullsh*t site. It is the laughing stock of Tampa media. Haters cannot argue with that.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:17 pm
@steve
A quick football question.
Ive read a lot about the “disruptive” nature of the position MCoy will play, and how it will uplift the defense from linebackers making tackles on running plays, as well as DE’s getting a better pass rush.
Do you go along with that theory, and do you think we have the the other “pieces of the puzzle” in place defensively for it to happen this season?
April 26th, 2010 at 1:21 pm
Right here d-money.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
@Eric
I definitely think on a pass rush tip it will help. I believe McCoy will get enough push that quarterbacks won’t be able to step up easily in the pocket. That means the defensive ends will have a shot at getting the quarterback down with their speed rushes outside. So many times last year Stylez in particular would beat his man around the corner only to have the QB step up in the pocket away from him and get the ball off. Im not sure if McCoy will be good enough his rookie year to command a double team but if he is that will also help the nose on pass rush by leaving him one on one with a guard.
On running plays he will help the most on stretch plays where the running back is trying to get around the corner. Because in our defense the ends effectively give up the corner at least initially by lining up head up on the tight end, its important for the undertackle not to get hooked/reached blocked inside. He actually many times becomes the initial contain element of our base defense making the running back have to cut back weak. But on inside runs the nosetackle is gonna be key. He has to take on the double and be ready to come off and make a tackle as soon as the center or guard comes off to a linebacker. Its one of the hardest plays to make in our defense but its gotta get done if we wanna stop the run.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
I was right .
No need to send apologies to my e-mail address. You all are welcome to announce them publicly right here in this blog.
LOL
April 26th, 2010 at 1:26 pm
@Steve
I get your point about playing time. My counterpoint is that:
1) If we had drafted a DE at #35 he wouldn’t have gotten any more playing time.
2) There were no other CBs or OTs or safetys that would have been a good value at #35.
I think that’s why they went with Price. I’m all for putting the best players on our team, not reaching for an inferior guy.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Carlos Dunlap should have been the choice .
End of story.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Steve, if you examine your age and that of little EJ here. He is pisssed and sounds as if you could have been that baby’s daddy by mistake. Are you sure you didn’t inadvertantly spank his mama a time or two back in the day. Maybe it was Sapp that did her. Maybe it was the whole freakin defensive line.
EJ needs to give a call to Maury.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
I would be proud to be Sapp’s seed. Can’t say the same about Steve.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:37 pm
LOL…I kinda like this Elijah kid .
April 26th, 2010 at 1:38 pm
Respect to Joe, for not deleting my comments. I’m out guys. I am all for this site turning around and becoming a decent place for me to find bucs news.
Grow up Steve.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
Joe here,
Elijah – I did catch up and delete some of your stuff. Why? Because you’re out of control. And you know what? I even deleted the profanity-filled e-mails you sent me last week. There are plenty of other Bucs sites for you to visit. Why not spread your love over there.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:44 pm
No loss. My comments, or not being welcomed on this site.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:45 pm
What a Flame Fest.
In Round 3 we could have chosen the DE from USC… even though he went 4th #2… then a CB in the 4th and then the WR Mike Williams with our 5th… the pick we shouldn’t have traded.
I still like McCoy and Price though… and who says McCoy won’t be getting the double teams?
April 26th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
BTW “supreme jerk”.. Wow.
Honestly, huge compliment coming from you Joe. Carry on saying your name in 3rd person.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
I have to admit that I didn’t really “understand” how people can misinterpret postings. For example saying that drafting Berry rather than McCoy would have been stupid is a prime example. Some may interpret that as saying the person is stupid which was never the intent. In fact the word stupid isn’t even the best choice; ridiculous would have been a better “non-personal” word choice.
Saying that someone’s assumption is dumb can also be interpreted as a personal accusation when in faction the author should have said that assumption was erroneous or inaccurate.
I guess that’s what happens when I write emotionally instead of rationally. Having re-read that initial post from a different perspective I guess I owe you an apology. Sorry.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
@Radio Mushmouth
I will send you my invoice at my usual hourly rate.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
@Matt
I think one major point you are missing with me is where Price was drafted. By drafting him at 35 we effectively created a situation where we would likely have to trade up to get the WR we wanted. Having already addressed DT, WR was a much more pressing need at that point and because we haven’t been active in free agency each and every pick needed to count. I was more pissed about losing that 5th round pick than I was about taking Price. Hell I love Price as a player. Im not sold on whether moving him to nose tackle will work in either the short or the long run but I could have given the Bucs at least a B if not bettter had they not lost that 5th rounder and potentially another starter/major contributor.
Besides that we have a BUNCH of needs on this team. Whether we traded down from #35 or took say a Dexter McCluster or a Nate Allen or a Sergio Kindall or whomever else at what ever other position we still woudl have had a 5th rounder to take another run at a D Tackle or whichever position hadn’t been addressed yet. And lets keep in mind that before we took Price most of us on here would have probably been good with having Roy Miller as our starting nosetackle. Its only now after the draft that folks are acting like he is a non factor or something. Would you really have been mad if we had gotten McCluster AND say a Art Jones or Cam Thomas in the 5th at D Tackle? I know I wouldn’t.
April 26th, 2010 at 1:56 pm
@RahDom
Question for you. Would you have been happier with McCoy and Griffen or McCoy and Price?
April 26th, 2010 at 2:03 pm
Linebacker Adalius Thomas was released by the Patriots on Monday
and the Jags cut Henderson (Nose Tackle)
Wow those 2 guys could realy help out… I’d sign em!
@Eric (I would have loved him with the 3rd round pick… I mean, come on… we didn’t have a prob taking Mike Williams in the 4th)
Everson Griffen. For someone standing at 6′ 3 3/8″, weighing at 273 pounds, and who dominated the NFL Combine by ranking first amongst Defensive Ends in both the 40 yard dash (4.66) and bench press (32.0), according to ESPN.com, it’s surprising that he didn’t go higher. According to the talking heads chatting on ESPN Saturday, there has been concern over his inconsistent play and motivation. The good news is that he can get any needed “attitude adjustments” by being potentially “mentored” by such stars on the Vikings defense like DEs Jared Allen and Ray Edwards. Can those two veterans help bring this guy up to where he’ll really contribute in the future to Minnesota’s defense? Only time will tell.
April 26th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
@Mr. Lucky
“@Eric – hey stop being a pot-stirrer that’s MY job around here”
I thought I had em stirred but you took it to another level! Nice work!
April 26th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
P.S. FWIW, with our improved DTs…I’m forecasting double digit sacks from White. You heard it here first! (probably :p)
April 26th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
I was right .
I was right .
I was Right.
I was Right.
I was right.
Did I mention yet that I was right , and most of you were all wrong ??
April 26th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
LOL @ Radiomushmouth.
April 26th, 2010 at 3:12 pm
You really are not right… because Price is gonna be a beast…
April 26th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
A beast at Nose Tackle ?? I doubt it .
A beast as McCoy’s career back-up?? I doubt it.
…and if he is a beast , we’ve got even bigger problems, because even if he turns out to be the best undertackle since Sapp , we can’t play him anyways, because you cant take McCoy (who’s going to be paid 40 million garanteed) off the field. 40 million plays regardless of who is better.
April 26th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Lets hope SOMEBODY is a dang beast.
That would be a refreshing change.
April 26th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Hey RadioMM
You were right about what? So White agrees with you. I guess that’s why you both are highly paid sports analyst’s on ESPN and the NFL Network right?
NOT!!!!
April 26th, 2010 at 6:06 pm
Mr. White. I was surprised very much like anyone with that pick. I was hoping you would show up here and tell why it made sense. You make a very good case for why it does not make sense, kind of worried about how things play out and hope for the best. As usual, great piece of work Mr. White.
April 26th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Mr. Lucky .
If this was the Arena Football league , where teams never run the ball , taking two undertackles would have been a great idea.
It’s ok , we can always rely on Barrett Rudd to make the tackle 15 yards down the field.
April 26th, 2010 at 8:06 pm
Steve: I read your blog and could have sworn you said:
“the Price is wrong, bitch”. Why so negative Mr Satanpants?
April 26th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
@Trguy
I actually did laugh out loud at that one!
April 26th, 2010 at 10:07 pm
@Jonny
Thanks for continuing to read my stuff!
April 26th, 2010 at 10:40 pm
Maybe were making this damn thing too complicated? No wonder Coach Morris wants “somebody to make a play”.
April 27th, 2010 at 9:08 am
@ Eric
Simple is Raheem’s middle name.
April 27th, 2010 at 10:30 am
when is it too early to start drafting the best players on your board. i thinkk we’ve all see the likes of Indy, NE, etc take guys that they didnt “need”. Good teams take the best talent. period.