Haynesworth, Dominik And History
April 7th, 2010
The tale is out there prominently in Bucs folklore: Mark Dominik made a play last March to give Albert Haynesworth a gargantuan contract to join the Bucs, allegedly more money than Haynesworth was offered anywhere else.
Then, just days later, Bryan Glazer explained to the media that he and his brothers had no interest in the “dark path” of free agency.
And then a few weeks later, Joe documented Haynesworth on NFL Radio getting squirrely in an interview when asked whether the Bucs really offered him more cash than any NFL team.
History can be so much fun.
Now Mike Florio, curator, creator and overall guru of ProFootballTalk.com, is reporting that the disappointing and disruptive Haynesworth received a $21 million bonus from the Redskins last week and only has $9 million remaining guaranteed to him for the final three years of his contract.
Obviously, the Redskins consider him a collossal waste of money at this point.
So Joe, being a history lover, has to wonder how Dominik should be judged for allegedly making an aggressive effort to sign Haynesworth last year? Tough call, especially if you’re not really sure the Bucs really had any intention to sign him.
Florio goes on to report that the Redskins can’t wait to trade Haynesworth, who is still just 28 years old.
So should the Bucs deal for him and put him alongside manbeast Ndamukong Suh or Gerald McCoy? For an intelligent answer, Joe turned to former Bucs defensive end Steve White.
White tells Joe that Haynesworth wouldn’t play nose tackle, and Suh and McCoy aren’t nose tackles, either. So that scenario is just a fairy tale.
April 7th, 2010 at 11:28 am
White what r u talkin about jeff fisher had him playn nose tackle in tennessee!
April 7th, 2010 at 11:30 am
I hadn’t previously appreciated how close in time to the run at Fat Albert, the Glazers came out and said they were building through the draft.
If I didn’t know better, id say they were making it up as they go along.
April 7th, 2010 at 11:49 am
This site needs more Steve White!
April 7th, 2010 at 11:52 am
For anyone who thinks the Bucs were goign to cut Haynesworth all that money, you are one sorry gullible dude
April 7th, 2010 at 11:54 am
Looks like White has a live chat. How much more do you want?
April 7th, 2010 at 11:58 am
@Gatorgod
Your right, I should have said “alleged run”.
but your forgetting “money will never be an issue”.
April 7th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
Zech, I think Haynesworth was playing 3-tech in Tennessee. Infact he was complaining in Washington for being played as a NT and eat up blockers instead of penetrating.
April 7th, 2010 at 12:02 pm
@zech
Sigh…
NO Fisher had Haynesworth playing right defensive tackle in Tennessee where they didn’t flip flop. But the whole reason he was on the right side was because it meant he would be in a 3 technique more. And the Redskins gave him 3 technique money to come to the Deadskins. The whole reason he wants out of there now is BECAUSE they want him to play nose tackle. Now the other part of my answer is that you can’t pay somebody that much money to play nose in a 4-3. Its exactly why the Bucs let Sapp go to Oakland after Booger got the big contract. Putting that kind of cash into Haynesworth then paying Suh or McCoy #3 money is a recipe for financial ruin.
April 7th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Steve,
If you had your choice of Haynesworth, Suh, or McCoy, which would you take for the bucs defense?
April 7th, 2010 at 12:13 pm
@Eric
Id still take McCoy because he is younger and has game/technique more transferrable to our scheme (for now). I also think he has the higher upside as he has less tread on his wheels than Suh and he can still get a lot stronger. I was never high on Haynesworth coming here last year to be honest. I thought he was a good two gap guy who was only average at pass rush but was blessed with physical gifts. I won’t say I thought he was lazy but I will say I was worried about weight issues with him too. I think you can win with all three guys but I think McCoy gets you more consistent pass rush down after down and that’s what you need in our kind of 4-3
April 7th, 2010 at 12:21 pm
Mr. White,
First time commenter. Really enjoy your commentary. So hard to actually learn about football anywhere else.
Why should we care about financial ruin in an uncapped year? And do we really know that’s the case ? Nobody’s ever had talent like Haynesworth and Suh or McCoy next to each other that I know of. Maybe a new trend for success. Defer to you on Haynesworht in this defense of course, but don’t think you can rule it out because of money.
April 7th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
@Steve,
At the risk of sounding stupid, let me ask you this clarification.
The three technique DT you referred to lines up between the left guard and tackle, with that one gap his primary responsibility?
And, because that requires speed perhaps McCoy is better suited to it than Suh or Haynesworth?
April 7th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
@feaster
Well mostly because this is one year out of what I think all of us hope will be many more years of the NFL existing. I don’t know if there will be another salary cap but I’m pretty sure there will be and if so teams will still have to worry about how much they are shelling out eventually. It would make no sense to get Haynesworth in for one year and it also woudn’t make sense to tie that much money up in the defensive tackle position. Keep in mind that having Haynesworth plus Suh or McCoy doesn’t automatically put us in the playoffs. Hell he was on a pretty good defense last year and that team only won 4 games. And without wins and possibly playoff games the Glazers will be losing big time when fans don’t come ot the games.
Of course I have enough sense to realize that average fans could care less about how much money we spend as long as we are winning, but unfortunately money does factor into the occasion. That’s money you can’t pay to a wide receiver for Freeman or corner when Ronde retires or a safety to shore up our back line
April 7th, 2010 at 12:47 pm
@Eric
You are right as far as a description of a 3 technique other than the fact that in our scheme they can be on the left or right side depending on the call and the offensive formation.
As for why McCoy is better suited, its because he has a really quick get off on the ball and he actually uses technique on his pass rush. Haynesworth is just a brute force who rarely uses his hands effectively to get pressure. Suh is much the same kind of player but smaller size wise and for some odd reasons some draftniks think he will just magically devlop pass rush moves after some team drafts him. I have seen too many physically gifted defensive lineman who had no technique come into the league and flop to buy that. Maybe MAYBE if we still had Rod Marinelli coaching here I would feel better about us drafting Suh but we don’t and I just don’t believe he is all of a sudden going to be using his hands well and using the footwork necessary to be a consistent rusher when he never did it or had to do it in college. To be honest Dan Wilkenson was WAYYYY more physically gifted but also didn’t have technique and never became the dominant D Lineman that folks projected him to be. Im not saying Suh will be a bust by any means but Im just saying I don’t think he will get a ton o sacks/pressures like some folks think he will and thats what we need from our 3 technique.
April 7th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Great info about why McCoy is better than Suh. I find it funny when some folks declare draftniks morons for having McCoy over Suh, I for one like Suh more because I am tired of watching Panthers run all over us.
Mr.White, what kind of an impact do you think McCoy or Suh could make against the run as a 3-tech in our scheme?
April 7th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
@Jonny
Here’s the thing, in my opinion the two most important positions where we need to either play better or have an upgrade to improve our run defense are nose tackle and strong safety.
With the nose tackle we need a guy who either commands a double team every play and thus allows our middle linebacker the freedom to come down hill and make plays in the backfield, or a guy who is quick enough and has good enough technique to be able to play off any scoop blocks or zone blocks and make the plays themselves. Or both. I really believe that had Booger not gotten hurt and then not been switched to undertackle that he might have been one of the best nosetackles in Bucs history because he was so good at playing a double team and he was so fast making plays when the center or guard tried to come off him and go up to the linebacker. And its funny that not many people noticed that when he got traded to the Colts they put him back at nose and he helped lead them to the Superbowl.
As for Strong Safety, as I have said in other posts, many teams base their running games now on blocking the front 6 or 7 and leaving the safety free and telling the running back that is the guy they have to beat. Whether its making them miss or running through them running backs who get tons of yards on any defense generally do so by being able to beat the other team’s safety(s). But conversely when you have a safety that can hit and really bring it not only do you end up on the good side of the intimidation factor, you also cut down on how many big plays you give up in the running game. So many times last year teams would run the ball on us and a play that might be a legitimate 5 yard run turns into a 20 or 30 yard run because the safety missed the tackle.
The three technique for the most part is a one gap guy whose primary focus in the runninig game is to turn back any attempts to run the ball outside and hold up against the double team when the offense is trying to run the counter/trap/power O strong. I know people don’t really talk about this but in our system Suh won’t have much more of an effect in our running game, if any, than McCoy will. And the truth is because I haven’t seen Suh ever get off the ball and really play a zone block to turn it in, which I have seen McCoy do, it might actually be that for our defense McCoy is better for our run defense too. Again, that’s a maybe but one rooted in fact.
April 7th, 2010 at 5:20 pm
Dr. White, thanks for the response and I am amazed at how much I do not know about the game as a viewer. Now that you point out why/how technique>>strength for a 3-technique even against run I am totally sold on McCoy.
April 7th, 2010 at 5:23 pm
@Jonny
I second those remarks.
40 years of football viewing, and I had no idea any of this stuff was even going on!
April 7th, 2010 at 5:51 pm
Joe here,
Steve White’s got a real plainspoken way of educating the masses about this stuff. Way cool. And we’re very lucky.
It’s really like that in any sport. Those who have played and studied the game at high levels recognize the all the intricacies, but few can express it coherently.
April 7th, 2010 at 6:12 pm
@Eric, I’m don’t. I still think Suh is more Like Sapp. A disrupter that will cause many problems. But I guess Detroit will make that decision for us!
April 7th, 2010 at 7:11 pm
Steve,
Just curious about your thoughts about some of the defensive ends in the draft this year? Are there any guys who you feel would be a good fit in the second or third rounds for the Bucs? Thanks!
April 7th, 2010 at 8:30 pm
@Trox
I am not really a mock draft guy so I its hard for me to say where guys will go on draft day but here are the ends I like for us.
Derrick Morgan will probably be gone but I love his technique rushing from left end.
From my time working at USF I always thought George Selvie should have been a left end even though he was on the small side. I think he could bulk up 10 pds and be a good pick for us. Probably not a 2nd rounder though.
Greg Hardy from Ole Miss
Austen Lane out of Murray State
Lindsey Witten out of UConn.
Those are some names I think would fit in here. But for rounds and all that you probably want to read Justin’s work.