Question Marks Rise From Glazer’s Address
March 24th, 2010
Joe has read the various comments from Joel Glazer, who sat down today for his typical annual chat with select local beat writers at the NFL owners meetings.
Joe inhaled Glazer’s words, and now Joe must exhale some questions.
First, Glazer reiterated his stance that the Bucs are building through the draft and he eloquently and admirably detailed to the St. Pete Times how he’s willing to take media and public relations lumps to develop players and build a champion, versus jerking around with 9-7 and 8-8 finishes. Here’s an excerpt:
“Number two, go back to the beginning of last year. There was a reason we made some changes. We made some changes because we recognized we had aging core group of individuals that was not sustainable. We were headed off a cliff here. That cliff did come, but we said we’d better be proactive to this than reactive in dealing with this. When I say proactive, it meant a plan. Number one, we have to start bringing in some young talent on this team. It’s time for some of the older people to move on so some of the younger people get an opportunity to come in, grow, develop and become part of the team. And that has been the plan, that we’ve got to start building the base with young talent.
“If you look at the teams that have had sustained success, it’s the teams that have done it and got it right.
“With that being the plan, letting older veterans go, a void of draft picks from previous years, making a conscious decision to go that route, the way the NFL has been is there are some years your spending is up and a series of years your spending is down. Then hopefully, you go back up. We are in that period right now.
“There are unique opportunities when they do come up, we’ll take advantage of them. Kellen Winslow is an example. That’s a guy who fit the profile. Younger, talented. You make a trade for a second-round pick. I think that would’ve cost us a million dollars last year and we turn it into a guy we’re paying $7-million to.”
Glazer said the team made a conscious decision not to be big players in free agency, which consisted of mostly older players.
“Yes, we could go out and sign a couple of 29- and 30-year-old free agents. But I don’t know what that does for us long-term,” Glazer said. “That could get us back in that mediocrity of 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 and that cycle we’re really not interested in. That’s not going to win us a championship. It may feel a little better. I’ll go through a lot less criticism, no question about that. But that’s fool’s gold. We’re not in the business of fool’s gold. We’re in the business of winning championships.”
Of course, Joe understands his logic. And Glazer went on to tell Woody Cummings, of The Tampa Tribune, that money is no object in building the Bucs into a winner.
But here’s what doesn’t jibe for Joe: If it’s now all about rebuilding this team through the 2010 draft, then where is the huge investment into the staff that actually scouts and drafts the players. Where is the money?
Surely, Team Glazer could have gone out and hired big time personnel gurus to come and work under Mark Dominik for this draft. They could have built the most impressive draft team and war room in the history of the NFL draft.
That didn’t happen.
Dennis Hickey is the college scouting director back for yet another season of subpar service. Mr. Glazer, is that the guy you are going all-in with to rebuild your club? He was in on the annual draft whiffs you spoke of. Is he the best money can buy?
Mark Dominik? That was quite a leap of faith to rebuild your money-is-no-object franchise with a rookie GM last year, who also was part of some the ugly drafts you spoke of. You like Dominik? Great. Give him the checkbook to buy the best draft team in the business. But you didn’t do that.
Joe repects that Glazer had the balls to pull the plug on Chucky, gut the team and try to build another near-dynasty.
But if that’s the plan, and money is no object, then you invest in the best personnel people in the industry.
March 24th, 2010 at 7:22 pm
Build a Dynasty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
That was either sarcasm or you have had way too many Caybrews.
Pull yourself together man. DYNASTY?????????????????????? With who? Reggie Brown and the blocking icon?
The Dream is gonna build a dynasty! I can’t stand it……………….
People, listen up. This year, next year, year after, whatever……………..”Rah” will never even have a .500 team. He SUCKSSSSSSSSS.
March 24th, 2010 at 7:23 pm
The reason it doesn’t jibe Joe is because he isn’t being truthful.
March 24th, 2010 at 7:26 pm
I think Joe makes that pretty clear without calling pants on fire.
March 24th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
You people bitch when the owners do not talk, now you bitch and say they are not telling the truth. The man syas they have a plan in place and intend to stick with it…..better then selling their souls to a bunch of old players. Stay the course and thanks to the man for letting us in on his thoughts going forward
March 24th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
I love this site that everyone refers t oClayton as the Blocking ICON LMAO
March 24th, 2010 at 9:50 pm
The entire scouting department is in the final year of it’s contract. I’m not sure what the ramifications would be if they had pulled out of that contract and fired them early, but would it really have been better to bring in all new scouts that Raheem and Dom have no prior relationship with right before this huge draft? I’m not sure how smoothly things would have gone this year if they were dealing with all new scouts.
You can’t come out and say you aren’t renewing thier contract. Then you have pissed off unmotivated scouts that might not do a great job for you. They might even intentionally do a bad job out of spite.
Last year Hickey wanted to draft DE Michael Johnson in the first round. He didn;t end up going untill the 3rd and did nothing his rookie year. If we had listened to Hickey as we have in the past, we would have another 1st round bust. Instead, Dom and Rah decided who they wanted to draft. This year Dom says he and Rah have the final say and while they listen to all scout input, they are watching hours upon hours of tape and doing the interviwes themselves and they will decide who to draft.
Perhaps Allen leaned a little too much on Hickey on draft day. Maybe he took Hickeys board as law and worked off of it. It would certainly explain alot. Dom and Rah and definetly taking a hands on approach and only using scouts to gather information. I think it’s all on Dom and Rah. Our scouts shouldn’t really effect our draft as much this year as they have in the past. Just my $.02
March 24th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Oh….and I do expect us to clean house in the scouting dept after the draft.
March 24th, 2010 at 9:53 pm
Eric
Its pretty clear you don’t like the Bucs’ managment, ownership or personell. Its pretty clear you haven’t liked either of them for a long while. You say Rah is a joke.
One question, WHY?
Why do you spend so much time bashing the bucs? If your a fan you should support the team, NO MATTER WHAT. Its called fanhood. Everyone knows these are hard times to be a Buc fan, but all that aside, football is supposed to be fun and entertaining.
This isn’t politics, you dont HAVE to live with being a Buccaneers fan if you dont want to, or blog on a Bucs fan web site for that matter. The Glazers are not some villanous duo that are trying to ruin your lives(They own the bucs for godsakes; it isn’t a stretch to say they actually want the team to succed too).
You be a bucs fan because its fun and entertaining. If you are not having fun or being entertained then why do you devote so much time to this website? Do you really have nothing else better to do than bash Buc fans? You don’t have a job or a family or some educationalor religious commitment to be occupying your time with?
March 24th, 2010 at 10:25 pm
well i guess all the critics are welcome, but only when the season begins and we see what’s the deal wih the bucs, i trust en dominick, raheem is OK but I’m not completely sold on him (i trust in his eye talent and communication, not completely in his coach abilities) the last draft was ok for us, Freeman looks solid, Roy Miller is lots better than Hovan and Sims and Hopefully with a new DT we can be talking about a great front line, Sammie is a great player, no matter if he comes in the 7 round, i see him like a steve smith guy so we can trust on him, Kyle Moore should be healthy and show us he real deal, and we are gonna see biggers and fulton do something, this year is almost double of picks and talent, so i guess we can do it great, go bucs
March 24th, 2010 at 10:27 pm
Joe…. You nailed it buddy!
You have them backed in a corner on this one.
What could they possibly say to counter your question?
That Raheem and Dominick is the best personell men to organize and run a draft war room? All they proved last year was that they could trade draft picks…. Poorly. This ownership is coming out swinging defending their Great Plan. ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS HIRE EXPERIENCE and the story would have been more believable. But with who is/isn’t calling the shots, I can’t believe them at all.
I wonder if the Glazer boys want to play Jerry Jones and be completely involved in their franchise toy.
The kids will never be as good as daddy Glazer… And they ate proving it in a monthly basis.
March 24th, 2010 at 10:35 pm
Marc,
“If you are a fan you should support the team, NO MATTER WHAT.”
I’m sorry that’s not called fanhood, it’s called willful ignorance. And you, as a fan are welcome to it. Marc, as a fan is welcome to yell and scream, much as you likely do when Clayton drops another pass.
If your company laid off half of your coworkers and friends would you complain? You might, likely because of the horrible decision you though it made. The parallel with the Buccaneers is no different. Some fans lament their teams poor management. How happy should a Pittsburgh Pirates or LA Clippers fan be? Should they support their management and coaches “NO MATTER WHAT.”? How are the frugal Bucs, who, like the Pirates not competitive and are annually at or near the bottom of the payroll lists any different?
If you listen closely to Lord Glazer you read “That could get us back in that mediocrity of 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 and that cycle we’re really not interested in. ”
That stands for ‘We really aren’t interested in being a competitive team this year, nor were we last year. You may be angry that our team isn’t going to be 8-8, 9-7 or playoff bound this year, but we assure you, that costs money. We will not wastefully spend money to be a reasonably competitive team. We will only spend it when Josh Freeman sets NFL records for passing and our upcoming draft results in at least two HOFers.”
March 24th, 2010 at 11:16 pm
@Marc
Love the team. Have since day one, and always will.
Unimpressed with the coach. Very bad hire after no others interviewed. Credentials were and are severly lacking.
Owners are taking us for fools.
As a long time bucs fan I remember what it is like to be at the bottom. It aint fun. I fear were heading there again for a long time.
Thus, I vent, along with many other bucs fans. Not because we hate the team, but because cause we care.
March 24th, 2010 at 11:22 pm
BTW,
Have the Glazers ever heard of a 9-7 team making a run, and into the SuperBowl?
I think Arizona did it two years agao.
Whats so horrible about 9-7?
March 25th, 2010 at 12:07 am
I can’t stand when people compare the NFL to an everyday buisness/occupation (see NFL lockout). Its like comparing Jordan Shipley to Wes Welker or Toby Gerhart to Mike Alstott. They are simply just not the same. You cannot compare what the Bucs ownership to a company that is laying people off. The philosophy of running a business on the corner of Dale Mabry+Fletcher, for example, is just volumes away from the philosophy of running a pro sports team. There is just no debate about that.
Whats so horrible about 9-7? Its arguable whether or not we should have undergone a rebuilding process, but don’t forget that horrible 4 game slide at the end of the 2008 season. Thinking back to that specific point of that specific season, I don’t miss our old team much. Our team was geting too old and was going to have to be revamped in the near future anyway.
Besides, what better time to rebuild your franchise than last year. You get to break everything down, see what you have, and add to that with “the deepest draft in years”. Now im not saying that was the intention, but seems to be working itself out nicely.
I hear all the time that our team is being frugal, but noone seems to realize the money that would be spent on a “high profile” coaching staff or scouting agency would cost as much as it takes to sign even a mediocre player, like Sean Jones for example. Something like that is such a realtivley small expense, it is really silly to think the Glazers would nickle and dime that aspect of or team.
Now you may call me “willfully ignorant” but my eyes are wide open my friend, and I’m waiting. We’ve been told countless times what “the plan” was and the Bucs have been sticking to it. I’m not sure why our recent underspending is such a suprise to everybody, seriously, it would be like people being suprised if “Pac-Man Jones” does something dumb and gets booted from the league, again.
The moment of truth is after the draft, when we will not only have re-signed our current RFAs but when we sign 11 rookies to our squad. Those players, the RFAs and the rookies, are going to cost our team boatloads of money! Being it is the last free-for-all rookie payroll year, don’t be suprised when rookies’ agents demand lucrative contracts. If there is a holdout between any player and the Bucs, then I will join you all in the “venting”. But untill then there is really not reason to moan.
~GO BUCS!!!!~
PS — It is also funny to me that people are complaing how we are curently tied for the lowest payroll. Well, DUH! We have noone on our team right now. Think of the money freed up with all those players who became RFAs ( and that we will soon re-sign). Think of all the money that is to be spent in this draft, since we are picking at #3 and we have 5 picks in the top 101. Not to mention the money freed up when we let AB walk.
March 25th, 2010 at 12:09 am
Great synopsis. I have been saying the same thing for the last two years. How do you expect to come up with a great draft when you are using the same personnel as you have for the last few years. The Trib just repeats what the owners say without critisism or question. They hitched their wagon to Morris when the Trib hacks succeeded in running Chucky out of town. Now we have a coach the players love and a 3-13 season to go with it.
March 25th, 2010 at 12:10 am
ERIC
“Have the Glazers ever heard of a 9-7 team making a run, and into the SuperBowl?
I think Arizona did it two years agao.”
Im sure they’ve heard of that team. The real question is how often does a 9-7 team actually do that. Heck, 9-7 teams don’t usually even make it to the playoffs in this division.
March 25th, 2010 at 12:20 am
BTW
If it hasn’t become apparent already, the only time Micheal Claytons feet will touch the field will be during preseaon, or when he is possibly on special teams.
March 25th, 2010 at 2:30 am
“You cannot compare what the Bucs ownership to a company that is laying people off.”
To give a specific example of an emotional effect that I was alluding to regarding fans of this team: The Bucs laid off Derrick Brooks, Ike Hilliard, Cato June, Warrick Dunn etc last year. To some fans, and it appears Joe is one, the loss of some of these players stung like it would if Bob from accounting was let go. Even if we are talking “football” people get attached to personalities they feel they know and they grew to like. It DOES affect how they react to the organization, and gives the precedence to think independently and not blindly or ideologically.
FYI the Giants, way back in the aught-seven league year went 10-6 in the regular season to eek into the playoffs with a wild card then proceed to win the whole damn thing, beating the Bucs and previously undefeated NE. That should tell the Glazers that if you get in, even by the slimmest of margins you have a decent shot at it. I don’t think anyone expected the Jets to knock off SD last year either.
And no Marc, we have been the lowest payroll for 6 seasons now. Six. This didn’t happen yesterday. And I’m sure some fans think it is a “mere coincidence” that we have the youngest coach/GM combo in the league which SURELY has nothing to do with how much cheaper they are than someone proven, as alluded to by Joe 😉
March 25th, 2010 at 3:08 am
Sure, some 9-7 teams can make a run if they squeak into the wildcard games. It happens now and then.
Not to Grudens teams though. Both times we made it into the wildcard with Grudens patchwork teams, we got embarrassed. We looked like we didn’t belong and we got beat in the first game.
Have any of you Gruden lovers looked at the record while he was here? After he one the Super bowl with Dungy/Kiffens #1 ranked defense, we went 7-9 the next year. Then 5-11. After a 5-11 season you get a pretty easy schedule and what do you know…we went 11-5. Which meant we had a hard schedule the following year and surprise! we went 4-12….which gave us another easy schedule and we went 9-7 for two years in a row. Grudens teams were garbage and we were never going to improve. That is why he is gone. Some of you need to get over your man crush and decide if your a Gruden fan or a Bucs fan.
March 25th, 2010 at 6:47 am
So here’s looking up your old address.
March 25th, 2010 at 7:03 am
“That could get us back in that mediocrity of 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 and that cycle we’re really not interested in.
Yes a giess 3-13 or 4-12 is sooooooo much better!
To BuckeyeBoB; TRUTH? YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!
March 25th, 2010 at 7:57 am
I’m with JDouble. The last playoff game we won was the friggin SuperBowl 8 years ago. Rah and Dom may not work out, but a change was needed to do things the right way.
I’m sure Joe is just loving this. Way to take a polarizing stance! even if you don’t fully believe it yourself! that way we can all get into the comments section and bitch bitch bitch!
March 25th, 2010 at 8:31 am
I am awaiting with baited breath the Dream’s fabulous success in the playoffs. And I am sure he will have a Super Bowl trophy like Gruden too.
When exactly is that gonna happen? I really want to mark in on my Calendar.
You Gruden haters are the most ungrateful jerks ever. The man brings home the one championship in the history of the franchise, plus two more NFC South titles, and you trash him.
I suppose if the Dream does ever make it to the playoffs(which he wont), and loses in the first round, he will be crucified for it like was done to Gruden? Hell, Rah fans were ready to tear down the goalposts and have a ticker tape parade over one totally meaningless regular season win over the Saints.
BTW, the bucs were hardly “embarrassed” in the playoff losses. In truth they lost by one questionable call on a dropped pass in the endzone vs. the Skins, and lost a tough one to the eventual Super Bowl Champs in 2007. Both games were very competitive, as the bucs were in the regular season too.
Now, if you wanna talk “embarrassment” check the film on the Bucs vs. Jets and Giants games last year. More horrific football has never been played.
Keep on drinking that Glazer/rah/dom Koolaid. The truth is soon to come out. Another pathetic season is just around the corner. Enjoy another dose of 3-13 Gruden haters. As AB said, tape don’t lie.
March 25th, 2010 at 8:57 am
Eric
I can think back to a certain Giants-Bucs game a while ago, something about an underdog, New York, coming to our house and shutting us down. Although we put a couple scores up I remember feeling like we didnt have a chance agasisnt them the whole game. Yeah they went on to win the SB but I felt a little embarassed after that one.
Also, Im not sure If you were talking to me or JDouble or both of us but in case that was for me:
Umm, when did I ever trash Gruden? Just because I like Morris dosen’t mean I don’t like Morris. This is what I am talking about, its like a politic game with some people; if i say I like Morris that automaticly means I don’t like Morris, just because that is the common concensus huh?
TOM
Ok, first of all the Jets still never went to the superbowl in 2009 they didn’t win any sort of championship last year, 10-6 is a tad bit better than 9-7 but its still better, and even still thats only two teams in the past how many years? The Glazers want to be a consistant superbowl threat, something the Giants and Cardinals are not, something the Colts and Patriots are.
And no Tom , we have not had the LOWEST payroll for 6 years, we may have been a good bit below the league average, but we have certainly not been the lowest, check your facts.
March 25th, 2010 at 8:58 am
dosen’t mean I dont like Gruden*****
March 25th, 2010 at 8:58 am
When Rah cam out in his opening press conf, he said we need to play more violent, and stop the run, which is why we got beat those last 4 in Gruden’s last year (and still went 9-7).
So Raheem FAILED to stop the run in 16 games, FAILED to bring a violent defense reverting back to the cover 2 and FAILED by ending up DEAD LAST in the NFL in rush defense. FAILED 16 straight games.
You all hated 9-7??? Seriously? SERIOUSLY???
In what year will the Bucs go 9-7 under Raheem? Will Raheem EVER go 9-7?
Will Raheem ever do BETTER than 9-7 as the bar you guys set is higher than 9-7.
This is what is so ridiculous about this statement.
All the “9-7 isn’t good enough” sentiment is nothing more than an EXCUSE to get rid of Gruden.
You clowns are rationalizing that 9-7 isn’t good enough while 3-13 and 6-10 and 8-8 under Raheem is success.
The SMART fans see right through this BS.
March 25th, 2010 at 9:03 am
Who siad they hated 9-7?
March 25th, 2010 at 9:16 am
You guys kill me!!!!!! And ofcourse EVERONE knew the kind of players Dungy had in his second year! Get REAL, you had no idea that Sapp, Brooks and Lynch would turn out to be Hall of Fame players. If you did you wouldn’t be typing these stupid replies, you would be a GM…. And your not!!!
March 25th, 2010 at 9:43 am
@Marc
“Who said they hated 9-7?”
Glazer did.
And I believe it is a fact that the bucs had the lowest cumulative payroll for the last five years.
Also, now that there is no salary “floor”, which would have been 107 million, the bucs are at 87 million, if memory serves me correct. Some would say they are taking full advantage of that.
I note none of the Rah supporters have come forth with a date the bucs will make the playoffs. Must be afact just too hard to comprehend.
Lets simplify. We are heading into the second year of the “plan”. Rah has had a full year under his belt. The stupendous draft lies ahead.
So, how many games does Mr. Morris have to win this season for it to be a success? 8-8? Thats below the “not good enough and totally embarrassing” 9-7 mark for Gruden, right?
Im sure you all have such great confidence in the Dream, predicitng 8-8 will be no problem? If so, what is the standard?
March 25th, 2010 at 10:02 am
Oy! Alright! Who stepped on the estrogen button!!
March 25th, 2010 at 11:45 am
Unlike Joe, I do not have respect for the Glazers for “pulling the plug on Chucky”. While Chucky may have been crass at times, hows his replacement doin for ya Joe! Everyone condemed “Chucky” for bringing in over the hill players, which he won with, I might add! But it was okay for Morris to bring in “Sluggo” Leftwich to be the Star…Starting Quarterback! How’d that work out for ya? Yeah, the Glazers are tired of having those mediocre 9-7 seasons (when they wouldn’t let “Chucky” spend any money). So they Hire an amatuer Coach to take them to the “Promise Land” of 3-13! We may be from the South, Joel, but we Southerners do know when someone is blowing smoke up our ass. Personally, I think these series of interviews by Joel Glazerhouse, and by the amatuer Morris, are just Preludes to the Hammer that is going to fall on the hopes of the fans in the draft! I see that new spin-doctor is beginning to spin those tales. Yeah, we’ll fall for that, Ari!
March 25th, 2010 at 11:58 am
Not to parce words, but I think Joe respected the guts it took to fire Gruden, and wasnt endorsing the actual decision.
I look upon it as stupidity, not guts, but I do see Joe’s point.
Id say firing Dungy was gutsy also. Now hiring the next guy after Chucky who happened to be in the building without trying to look for a qualified person, that is indefensible IMO.
I think thats what most bucs fans are really PO’d about.
March 25th, 2010 at 11:58 am
ERIC
LIKE I SAID, GET YOUR FACTS STRIGHT! The Bucs have never had the “LOWEST” payroll in the last 6 years, EVER. Even last year, when the 2009 Buc team had the lowest payroll out of any other buc team in the past 6 years, we were not the lowest paid team in the league. Here is proof :
http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/sports/comments/buccaneers-had-third-lowest-payroll-in-nfl
Also, the Glazers never said they “HATED” being 9-7 nor did I hear any fan say they “HATED” being 9-7. I believe the statement of some fans was that we felt we needed a change in a new direction, since our starters were starting to buy more and more “Just For Men” to combat their old age.
And like i’ve already said som many times, why don’t you wait untill training camp starts before you breakout the accounting ledger. The Buccaneer roster, right now, will look nothing like it will by the time training camp comes around, there is no arguing that.
Its not that we are at a loss for words when you ask when we will get to the playoffs, its just that some people don’t feel like arguing with such a close-minded person. You want an answer? No later than 2012. Will should be in it in 2011 but no later than 2012.
~Go Bucs!!!~
March 25th, 2010 at 12:33 pm
We should be in it…****
March 25th, 2010 at 12:59 pm
From 2004-08, the Bucs did have the lowest payroll. http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/06/26/moneyball-nfl-style/
And we all know the Bucs were well under the salary cap for 2009. So it is 100% true that the Bucs haven’t spent money in the past 6 years. And let’s make it 7 since they are not spending it this year either.
March 25th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Ok, now you can talk about skewed statistics. I give you a rock solid figure from last seasons payroll and you give me an average $ amount of spending over the past half-decade.
Everyone knows we are consistantly at the bottom of the spending demographic, while other teams are off again and on again.
I never said the Bucs weren’t cheap and I never said they were big spenders. Read me one post, ONE POST, where I have stated the owners Bucs organization have been big spenders. I never argued that we were not under the salary cap but we were more than $20million from being the cheapest team.
AND FOR THE 5TH TIME TODAY:
Wait untill the start of training camp to be the judge of how much money the Bucs have or have not committed to our team.
BOO-HOO, We didn’t pick up Julius “Haynesworth” Peppers or Aaaron “busted -up” Kampman. Really?! Who cares?
As Raheem Morris has stated:
“We started over last year and in our plans we talked about being young and fresh. You don’t get rid of guys that could help you a year or two more just to bring in new guys for the sake of change.”
P.S. People complain about us not being big spenders but think of New York, Chicago and Oakland, some of the NFLs biggest spenders. What they they do last year again? How many titles did they earn? How many Playoff games did they win again?T hats right, nothing, none, and done.
March 25th, 2010 at 1:42 pm
…where I have stated the owners of the Bucs organization have been big spenders.***
$20 million form being the cheapest team last yera.***
…the bucs have or have not committed to the team, in 2009***
March 25th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
@Marc
Ok man, thanks for answering. So, the winning will begin maybe in 2011, but certainly in 2012. I assume that means you will accept losing this year, and the following year. Three straight losing seasons will be ok. Then, the big turn around.
We shall see.
March 25th, 2010 at 2:05 pm
Do you honestly think the Bucs are going to spend a significant amount of money before training camp? Really?
I don’t think anyone expected the Bucs to go for Peppers. I certainly didn’t want Peppers since he disappears way too often in games and is not worth all that cash. Kampman would have been a nice addition. The Bucs are obviously hoping they get several starters out of this draft. That’s a lot of pressure on these rookies. It would have been nice if the Bucs could have picked up a starter or two in free agency.
I certainly don’t like the theory of supporting the Bucs no matter. That is just plain bull shit. Fans should have the right to vent or complain or whatever. People shell out a lot of money for season tickets or tickets on game day, so we expect the owners to spend some of this money. They haven’t done that consistently since they bought the kick ball team.
I am still ticked that they hired Rah as head coach. The guy wasn’t ready for the job and he admitted it several times during the season. I don’t think the team should have won just 3 games last season. It did not have to be like that.
It truly would not surprise me if some of the posters are the Glazers or people hired by the Glazers.
March 25th, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Umm just because we are not in the playoffs does not mean we will be a losing team, im not sure how or why you came to that assumption. Our division is very good, you need to be well over .500 to make the playoffs any given year.
We may be a losing team this year but that comes with the re-building process; there is no team that has not had a really bad record after revaming thier football squad, even if there are 1 or 2 teams that can pull such a task off, it is a given that you will have a bad record if you go ot re-build your team from its core.
After this year, I expect nothing less than a .500 record. As I said our divison is very tough, it may take more than a .800 record to make the playoffs, thats the only reason I say maybe 2012.
And I wiosh you would stpop blowing things out of proportion for the sake of argument, you have to keep everything in perspective. We may not be a “winning team” this year, but I willl bet my left nut that we win more than 3 games.
Its about getting progressivley better, noone is expecting a sudden trun around, as if it just happens out of the blue. I say :
2009 – (3-13)*
2010 – (6-10)-(8-8)
2011 – (9-7)-(11-5) or better
2012 – (10-6)-13-3) or better
I speak for other Buc fans (who are on board with Moris, the Glazers, and Domink) when I say this is the kind of progression I expect out of managment.
March 25th, 2010 at 3:03 pm
@Marc
Fair enough. Very reasonable expectations, without giving them a total pass also.
If that happens my hat is off to Coach Morris, Dominik, and the Glazers.
And I will fully and gladly admit I am a total idiot.
On the other hand, if it doesn’t, perhaps i am right rather than being closed minded?
March 25th, 2010 at 3:06 pm
@Marc
BTW, never, ever gamble your left nut!
March 25th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
I know you did not just suggest I work for the Glazers. Joe can verify that one for you.
I am just a die-HARD Buc fan. And I feel a lot of these anti-glazer opinions are blown out of proportion. I know first hand how much money season tix cost, what is going to be truely disapointing is sitting in a more-than-half-empty stadium next season. Im confident that we will draw more people to the stadium as the season progresses though.
BTW
It is not a matter of opinion that we will spend a signifiacnt amount of money between now and training camp it is FACT. I can’t believe someone who follows the Bucs so closely would make such a statement. Seriouslly think of all the monety it is going to cost to bring back Ruud & Penn. Not to mention the money its goig to cost to sign our draft picks (just image how large the contracts of Suh, A.Benn, E.Griffen whould be for example and thats just the first three picks). Add that to the meanial RFAs and some possible last munute FA signings (which Dominik went on the record and said woulddefinatley happen, AFTER the draft) and I would say we should spend more than a “significant amount” of money.
March 25th, 2010 at 4:13 pm
^^ Sry, just got time to post that, its kind of old.
“”@Marc
Fair enough. Very reasonable expectations, without giving them a total pass also.
If that happens my hat is off to Coach Morris, Dominik, and the Glazers.
And I will fully and gladly admit I am a total idiot.
On the other hand, if it doesn’t, perhaps i am right rather than being closed minded?””
Ok, glad to see you at least see where I am comming from. It is way too early to say we will or wont be a losing team, I think we can both agree on that. But ill be on here throuhgout the season & Moriss’s tenature so if do worse than last season or Morriss ends up being a garbage coach, than I give you bragging rights, If we are worse than last year, you can rub it in as much as you like.
If the Bucs turn out to be good though, I think we will both be happy.
~Go Bucs!!!~
March 25th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
“And no Tom , we have not had the LOWEST payroll for 6 years, we may have been a good bit below the league average, but we have certainly not been the lowest, check your facts.”
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/06/26/moneyball-nfl-style/
And there are my facts.
Now tell me Marc, do you believe me now? I admit I stopped reading posts after this with the exception of some skimming. I don’t know or care to know what you think the money spent on players salaries is, I care to know the facts. You can also check usatoday.com and see annual team salaries. Compare the more competitive salaries with the near bottom salaries.
The Bucs are not on the bottom every year, they are on the bottom if you pull up the past six years and aggregate them.
March 25th, 2010 at 6:02 pm
To add, since another brief skim suggests there was discussion on this. NO team in any competitive American sport is on the bottom of their leagues payroll for over a half decade if looked at year by year. Look at baseball and even in that capless sport you see teams trading off the bottom spots. Most recently the Marlins have occupied the bottom spot for a few years in a row, but they will eventually spend a little to jump up into mediocrity.
As evidenced in the article, this isn’t “funny money” this is actual money that went to the players, and for a 5 year period in the article (two offseasons since seem to suggest the mantle hasn’t been passed) the Bucs are the dregs of the leage. No cap, and the Bucs sign no one.
According to USAToday
Bucs 31 out of 32 teams in payroll for 2009 http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2009
Bucs 23 out of 32 teams in 2008 and 2007
Bucs 31 out of 32 teams in 2006 http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2006
Bucs 26 out of 32 teams in 2005
Bucs 16 out of 32 teams in 2004
Given the razor margins for a given spot and how teams annually fluctuate, hopefully even March can understand that being annually in the bottom 10 leads itself to a report by LaCanfora which noted that the Bucs are the MOST FRUGAL TEAM in that stretch. And it’s not getting any better.
March 25th, 2010 at 7:12 pm
@marc, I cannot believe that you actually said;
” about getting progressivley better, noone is expecting a sudden trun around, as if it just happens out of the blue. I say :
2009 – (3-13)*
2010 – (6-10)-(8-8)
2011 – (9-7)-(11-5) or better
2012 – (10-6)-13-3) or better
I speak for other Buc fans (who are on board with Moris, the Glazers, and Domink) when I say this is the kind of progression I expect out of managment.”
I LMAO at those predictions. Morris will “Never” have a winning record as a head coach in the NFL. Who are the “Other Buc fans that are on board with the Circus group? 3, 4, maybe even 5 of you? No one with any sense would be in that camp! 2 amatuers and the 3 stooges. Now that’s a group.
March 25th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
Hey Tom,
How old are you, really? Are you still in school? What grade are you in son? If you would have taken the time to read the posts above you would already know why those are not real facts as Eric has already presented me wiht that data.
Let me reiterate, I never said our owners weren’t low budget I was arguing that we have never been the LOWEST spending team in the leauge.
As I told Eric, that is skewed data, an average over a half-decade. It is not a year-by-year demographic. And again, I NEVER said we were a high profile team when it comes to spending the big bucks, but we are not and never have been (excluding the Culverhouse era) the LOWEST spending team in the league. Some other teams spend less than us one year and more another and their 6 year avergae happens to be more than ours.
March 25th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
Hey Tampa 2,
I really don’t know what to tell you buddy. Im not a pshycic, your not a pshycic, and neither of us can predict what the future brings for the Bucs. We will find out in a few months though, we will find out in a few months my friend, talk to you then.
March 25th, 2010 at 10:19 pm
“How old are you, really? Are you still in school? What grade are you in son? ”
Marc,
I am an adult and I have a master’s degree. I also have a BS in Economics which I earned at the ripe old age of 20. You douche. I noted that I skimmed and the reason was because you like drone on and on like a long winded prick. So no, I didn’t read your whole post. There was way too much back and forth for me to give a damn.
We are the lowest spending team AS AN AGGREGATE of the 2004-2008 seasons. Meaning 32 out of 32 OVER THAT PERIOD OF TIME. Which at the time the article was posted happened to be the last 5 seasons. Combine 2009 and 2010 and you will see no change in being 32 out of 32. Look at the data.
http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/06/26/moneyball-nfl-style/
My IQ is 147, and I have to imagine if you can’t understand the concept presented in THAT LINK then you are likely wouldn’t score much higher than a 90. I don’t like to pull the intelligence card, honestly. But to call me out? Are you serious? I was smarter than you when I was in grade school SON.
March 25th, 2010 at 10:20 pm
Good research Tom.
The Bucs don’t have to do anything with Ruud’s or Penn’s contract. So their contracts are already factored in to the reported payroll. The NFL allots a certain amount of money for draft picks for every team. If you have more draft picks you are allotted more money. The Chiefs got about 8 mil assigned for their draft picks in 2008. They had 12 picks with 2 1st rounders. Since the Bucs have 11 picks, I would think the Bucs would have a little less than this.
Thus the Bucs will spend about 7-8 mil on the salaries of their rookies for this season. I don’t see them spending very much more on free agents. It would shock me if the Bucs payroll was over 100 mil. So I stand by my statement that their payroll won’t significantly go higher.
And I didn’t say for a fact that anyone was a Glazer or an associate of the Glazers. I just said it wouldn’t surprise me.
March 25th, 2010 at 11:06 pm
Assuming no change occurs in the interim. I’d like to point out as proof of how smart I am, by showing that I have realized signing up for the draft coverage with a username automatically locks in as your default and accidently posted under that name rather than my own.
I am still smarter than you Marc. That isn’t going to change no matter how many spelling errors or general posting problems I have 😉
March 25th, 2010 at 11:14 pm
@Eric
Given the Bucs payroll was 84.6 million in 2009, it would be practically impossible for the Bucs to reach 100 million without signing players or restructuring contracts even with the draft allocations.
Remember Luke McCown and his bonus no longer qualify. Angelo Crowell(unless re-sign), Jermaine Phillips, Mike Nugent, Byron Leftwich (likely), Michael Clayton (only half of salary guaranteed), Will Allen, Josh Bidwell, Matt Bryant, Jimmy Wilkerson(unless re-sign) will not be counting in whole or in part to this year’s team salary. There’s a good amount of money (7 mil to Clayton) that went to those players last year.
March 25th, 2010 at 11:27 pm
I wonder what they would do if the 107 million floor was in effect?