Steve White Wants Eric Berry
February 11th, 2010
There are few NFL analysts in the Tampa Bay area better than former Bucs defensive end Steve White.
Come to think of it, Joe can’t think of any.
So when White, who Joe is humbled to have write a weekly “Bull Rush” column for him, writes, Joe reads.
Today, on White’s blog, “Passing on the Game,” he makes the case for the Bucs drafting Tennessee safety Eric Berry.
Is White perhaps looking at the draft through his orange Tennessee sunglasses? See for yourself.
However, Joe finds it interesting what White wrote should happen if the Bucs draft South Florida defensive lineman Jason Paul-Pierre, who abject idiot Todd McShay, of BSPN, suggested this week the Bucs will draft at No. 3 overall.
Now I know one guy threw a total curveball saying the Bucs would take USF defensive end Jason Paul-Pierre, but that is pretty much unfathomable. In fact, while I like JPP’s potential I personally would say the whole scouting department should be fired if they draft him that high.
Joe wonders what kind of narcotics McShay has sampled? Is it that important to get your name out on the blogosphere to make such imbecilic predictions? Does this man have any shame?
February 11th, 2010 at 4:17 pm
http://www.NoBerryAt3BuyerBewareBecauseKiffinEndorsedHim.com
February 11th, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Jeff:
Joe was the first person in the Tampa Bay area to report that Monte Kiffin recommended the Bucs draft him at No. 3.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
My thinkin is if McCoy or suh is there at three we take them but if not we trade down and pick up more picks and then draft berry or dez bryant or McClain from alabama
February 11th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
While hindsight IS 20/20 drafting a player in the #3 slot does a couple of things:
1. Guarentees that player LOTS of cash
2. Creates INSTANT expectations that this player [drafted at #3] will contribute IMMEDIATELY
3. Indicates that the team drafting that player has immediate needs to be filled.
While Eric Berry may be the most talented safety in the class of 2010 draft is this the weakest link on the Bucs defense?
If the Bucs drafted Berry and had great tandem of secondary backs but didn’t produce any “push” from the front 4 don’t you think that NFL WR’s and TE’s would beat a rookie safety – better yet BURN that safety in his 1st 1-2 years (learning curve of NFL vs. college)?
While I love Troy Polamalu and the contribution to the Steelers ask yourself this – is Eric Berry the next Troy? (minus the locks of course!)
February 11th, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Yes, Joe, you were.
I don’t like Berry at 3, at all. I would rather trade back and take hayden or bryant. My hope is McCoy.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
I’m just really torn here. I think it’s 100% we take one of the DT’s if they happen to fall, but if they’re not there where do we go?
The consensus seems to be Berry and it’s hard to argue against it. The only legit argument is you “can’t take a safety at number 3”, but why not? The bucs need playmakers on both sides of the ball and this kid is certainly that…..
The only other option IMO is Russell Okung, IF you think he can play on the right side of the line. Okung gave up one sack last year and two (TWO) QB pressures….you put Okung on the right next to Davin Joseph and our Oline is set for at least 5 years. Add the return of Aaron Sears and Trueblood and you have unbelievable depth upfront….which is invaluable. Okung’s the real deal…big, nasty, quick feet.
I still think Berry’s the pick, but I wouldn’t be terribly upset if the front office decides to turn our Oline into a brick wall for our young QB
February 11th, 2010 at 5:28 pm
Jeremy Shockey, Antonio Gonzales, and Jeff King. Those are the tight ends we are going to have to cover for the next few years if we hope to contend for the division title. If you think a defensive tackle is going to come in and dominate you haven’t been paying attention. There hasnt been a defensive tackle to get double digit sacks in the NFL since Sapp did it in I believe 2006. I cant remember the last rookie defensive tackle who was dominant and every year we keep hearing about the “next Sapp”. Conversely rookie safeties routinely start even on good teams, just look at Byrd for the Bills. I expect that Berry would come in here and thrive in Coach Morris’ system and be just as good in the box as he would be covering the slot, playing the deep ball, or even blitzing on occasion.
If somebody wants to give us picks and we can move down a couple of spots and still pick up Berry, hey I’m all for that. But if we stay at 3 I dont see anybody else worth of that selection if Suh and McCoy are gone and I expect they will be.
February 11th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
Monte’s track record ain’t as good as the average fan…..
Pearson..safety
Howell..safety
Sabby..safety
however I’m OK with Berry or Dez…..if Suh & Mc are off the board
February 11th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
If suh or mccoy r there we take them if not we trade down and get more picks because taken a safty at three would be suicide cuz it a 50percent chance he will be a bust!
February 11th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
“Coah Morris’ system”………………………like he invented it or something. What a farce. All this fantasy about the defense playing so great down the stretch is nonsense. It was near the end of the season, no one cared. You saw what the Saints did once they regained focus. Does anybody actually believe the Bucs could have stopped Brees and Company in a meaningful game when the Vikes, Colts, and Cardinals could not? Monte Kiffin was an absolute defensive genius, the Dream is not. Reed, McCoy, Suh, trade down, free agancy, all irrelevant when you have a total joke for head coach.
February 11th, 2010 at 10:00 pm
I’m curious, Eric, what are your football credentials? Did you play in the NFL? Former scout? Coach? sgw94, Steve White, played football in the NFL for the Bucs. I’m pretty sure he understands whats going on better than you do.
February 11th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Nobody has ever taken a safty at three or in the top five of course I could be wrong! I’m just not sold on berry I mean he didn’t show up to play when tennesee played virgina tech he looked so uninterested I mean do we want a player like that on the bucs!
February 11th, 2010 at 10:38 pm
@Eric
Just out of curiosity, whose system would you say it was? It wasn’t Monte’s because we did some things Monte never did. It wasn’t Bates’ because obviously his system didn’t work.
As to your other point, that’s great revisionist history but lets work off facts. The Saints were still trying to get the number 1 seed when the Bucs beat them. They had no way of knowing the Vikings would lose and they played their ass off trying to win that game. Hell they were in a position to win in fact but their kicker missed the FG at the end. You can try to make all kinds of excuses for it but guess what, had the Vikings won out THEY would have had home field and after they played the Saints so close in New Orleans do you really think the Vikings would have lost to them at home? I don’t. And thats what was at stake. And to make matters worse we lost our starting defensive end on the first play on defense.
Now you might not want to believe what your eyes were showing you at the end of the year and that’s fine. But anybody who knows anything about football will tell you that the Bucs improved dramatically. And you will note that I said they would as soon as they announced the scheme was changing and I was one of the few to say so before they had even played a game.
What is ironic is that for as good as Monte was as a defensive coordinator, and make no mistake he was one of the best, we still ended up 4-12 in 2007. Was he an absolute genius then? Because my math might be off but that was only 1 win more than we had this past season.
Its so interesting to me that fans who obviously don’t know much about football feel they have standing to judge someone after one year as a “total joke”. Seriously
February 11th, 2010 at 10:39 pm
Charlie B – by your logic nobody should have questioned Matt Millen either (rolls eyes at idiot)
February 11th, 2010 at 10:39 pm
@zech
Ok so what is the percentage of a wide receiver, a quarterback, a defensive tackle or an offensive tackle taken in the top 5 being a bust? I bet you its at 50% also, if not worse.
February 11th, 2010 at 10:45 pm
@zech
In recent years 3 safties have been picked in the top 8 picks. Here is a link to an NFL.com article on the subject that is worth reading.
http://www.nfl.com/combine/story?id=09000d5d80ee96e4&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true
February 11th, 2010 at 10:56 pm
Charlie,
I had no idea you had to be an NFL player to comment at JoeBucs Fan.com. However, To answer your question, i am a mere fan of the game, never played except in a school yard. However, I did suffer through watching one of the worst coached teams in NFL last year. In more than one game the Bucs went more than an entire half of football without even a first down. Their adjustments at halftime were non-existent. The musical quarterback and coordinator show was rediculous. IMO, as a fan, this Coach we have is in wayyyyyyyyyyy over his head and its no fault of his, he simply lacks credentials and experience. Id like to be wrong, but that is the way I see it.
February 11th, 2010 at 11:00 pm
@RastaMon
Keep in mind that none of those safties you listed were taken in the top 2 rounds nor did any of them start under Monte. I would say Tanard Jackson was a pretty good draft pick wouldn’t you? Jermaine Phillips also played pretty well early on in his career. And before him there was Dwight Smith. You remember him right? The guy who had a pick six in the Superbowl for for us. And keep in mind that all those guys started or played a lot in their rookie years.
Oh as a correction it was the 2006 season, not the 2007 season when we went 4-12
February 11th, 2010 at 11:21 pm
To be fair Steve, wasn’t Dwight Smith drafted as a cornerback and moved to safety?
February 11th, 2010 at 11:27 pm
@Joe
I think they saw Dwight as a safety all along honestly. I was there with him his rookie year and it was obvious they had plans for him more than just playing corner even though that’s what he played in college. Remember Tanard Jackson was a college corner too.
February 11th, 2010 at 11:34 pm
The bucs won’t waste a #3pick on a safty they will trade down we have more pressin needs and to take a saftey a three is stupid we need. d-tacles and d-ends and recievers and a runingback and a cornerback and offensive tackle and then a safty ! So if mccoy or suh aren’t there then we should trade down and get more picks it just make sense!!
February 11th, 2010 at 11:37 pm
Steve,
Are you saying that Monte Kiffin And Raheem Morris are on the same level? Cmonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Monte presided over one of the best defensive runs in NFL History. He probably will go into the Hall of Fame.
And wasn’t that Mr. Morris’ defense totally shredded in the second half of that Atlanta Game?
February 12th, 2010 at 12:00 am
@Eric
No Im not saying they are on the same level. And that question, unless rhetorical, deserves a major DUHHHHHHHHHHHHH. The point I was making is that you are basing your assumptions off one season. A bad season no doubt, but also a season where Morris took over the defense for the last 6 games and there was a marked improvement. And if you are going to base who he is as a coach off of one season, and as a defensive coordinator off of 6 games then isn’t it just as fair to do the same with Monte?
What’s funny to me is that folks like you will decry the lack of talent we have on the one hand, and we did lack talent. Then on the other say Morris was “in over his head”. We uhm WTF was he supposed to do with a defense that lacked talent by your own admission? Unless you are saying that the Bucs had plenty enough talent to be a playoff team or some such. And in that case there isn’t much reason for us to continue this debate.
Did I agree with everything Coach Morris did this year? No, and I said as much. But again I will say this also, nobody is saying KC head coach Todd Haley is in over his head even though he made some of the same moves that Coach Morris did, had decidedly MORE talent, and barely had a better record.
As for the Atlanta game, yes we were shredded in the second half of that game. We gave up a gang of yards rushing and it was pretty demoralizing at times. But you know what, even with all that we still only gave up 20 points. Not good enough to be sure, especially when your offense only scored 10, but lets keep it real. Giving up 20 pts isn’t embarrassing by any means and we did get two picks. BTW they put up 23 on Superbowl Champion New Orleans with Redman as their QB.
Here is the real point, nobody actually knows how good or how bad of a coach Raheem Morris is yet. And they certainly don’t know how good or bad of a defensive coordinator he will be. But at least on the second deal, we have seen that the changes he made, even with mostly average talent, made a difference and in 2 cases helped us to win games. I have seen guys who were in over their head. Coach Morris is no Jim Zorn. I know everyone wants immediate gratification but it doesn’t always work that way. In Coach Singletary’s interim season as head coach of the 49ers some folks thought he was in over his head but he did pretty well this year. Whether you like Coach Morris or he isn’t your cup of tea one thing is for sure, by any reasonable estimate the team got better at the end of the year. And so for that reason any judgement on his ability as a coach should at least be put on hold until we see how he does next year.
If things don’t get much better then the verdict will be in. If things do start to turn around then he will prove the last 6 games weren’t a fluke. But in my opinion if you have made up your mind about him at this point you just don’t know a lot about football. It is what it is.
February 12th, 2010 at 12:38 am
I think your Cherry picking, over rating what occured in the last six. But hey if Raheem turns it around ill be the first to admit I am wrong. I would like that to be the outcome.
I remember “throw McKay in the Bay” and then 1979 came, so perhaps stranger things have happened.
As they say, thats why they play the game……………..
February 12th, 2010 at 1:25 am
Not sure how you think I am cherry picking over the last six games, but since this talking point won’t die let me break it down for you and everybody else.
The Bucs played 2 playoff teams out of the last six games and played 1 team twice that ended up with a winning record. When the Bucs played the Falcons the first time, the Panthers, and the Jets, all three were still trying to get into the playoffs. When we played the Saints they were angling for a number 1 seeding. So thats 4 out of the 6 games where the teams all DID have something to play for. The second game with the Falcons they were trying to do something that had never been done in their franchises history. Back to back winning seasons. So that makes 5 out of 6 games. Now the Seahawks sucked ass most of the year so yeah I guess you can write that one off, but I watched the game and I didn’t see them lay down for us. Hell they were WINNING at half time.
As for improvement, understand that I didn’t say we became the Steel Curtain or the Purple People Eaters. I said we improved. And as Jay Z said recently, men lie, women lie, numbers don’t.
In the last 6 games we got 7 picks, 11 sacks and 5 forced fumbles. Our opponents scoring average went down substantially to around 18 pts per for those 6 games. We held the superbowl champs to 17 points which is the same as what the Cowboys held them to the week prior.
Again, still not the old Ravens defense, but how can you look at that evidence and still not admit that they improved in a major way? I understand that there are some folks who are in the media in this area who have tried to poo poo the improvement but mostly thats because nobody ever challenged them on the substance of their argument. If somebody did challenge them most of them would fall on their face.
I root for the Bucs on Sunday from my heart but I blog about them from my head. It is what it is.
February 12th, 2010 at 8:14 am
I think that a bunch of pencil-pushing dorks arguing with a former NFL defensive end about football is rediculous.
HE PLAYED IN THE LEAGUE FOR 6+ YEARS UNDER TONY DUNGY, MONTE KIFFIN,
February 12th, 2010 at 8:18 am
WOOPS!
, and ROD MARINELLI……..
I THINK STEVE MIGHT KNOW A THING OR TWO ABOUT DEFENSE…..
On second thought……
Some guy at a desk with soft hands probably knows more about football than STEVE WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 12th, 2010 at 8:52 am
For all you people who think a safety isn’t that important, and not worth a high pick:
Stop blaming Sabby everytime something goes wrong. If his position isn’t important , he can never be to blame either. Every time he takes a bad angle next year , and it results in a TD for the other team, just sit on your hands and shut up. You can’t have it both ways…
February 12th, 2010 at 9:20 am
The Bucs need a safety in the worst possible way and I would love to see them draft Berry, but I think it will be good to see the rest of them at the combine, including Taylor Mays. I just can’t help but ffffffeel the BBBBucs may go against all rationale thinking and draft OFFENSE at #3, possibly Russell Okung. Offensive tackles are worthy of top 5 money and picks. It is a way to help Freeman and good OT’s are hard to find late in the draft. The Bucs O line needs improvement and we all know where the weak link is. His initials are Jeremy Trueblood, and although 99% of all Buc Fans want them to draft defense first, be it Berry or McCoy, they may just stay on the offensive side with their high picks. WR in the second round as well. It appears as though the plan is a long term one that starts on the offensive side of the ball, with no emphasis on winning early or often. I don’t prescribe to this idea, but I can surely see it going down this way.
February 12th, 2010 at 9:20 am
Hey, I may never have played the game, but neither did our beloved Glazer’s, and their the ones who hired Mr. Morris arent they? For that matter neither did Morris himself play in the NFL. Have I awakened in Iraq? Are only members of the NFL inner circle allowed to comment, lest be belittled?
Ok, the team showed some statistical improvement the last six games, point conceded. However, is that was based upon a “bad scheme” from Mr. Bates, shouldnt that have been recognized by the Head Coach way before ten games had been played? Perhaps in Training Camp? Or perhaps Mr. bates should not have been hired in the first place? Does Raheem just get a total pass for all that?
My ultimate point is that I don’t think the Glazers made an effort to put the best and most qualified person as the Head Coach of this team. Morris played for Hofstra, was a quality control coach for the bucs, then assistant DB Coach, DC for a college team, the DB Coach for the bucs. He was made DC by Gruden before he was fired, but never assumed that role before being offered the HC poition. To my knowledge no one else was even interviewed or considered before he was offered the job. Thus, IMO the hiring is suspect, and I think the long supportive fans of this team deserved and continue to deserve better, whether any of us played in the NFL or not……………
February 12th, 2010 at 12:45 pm
I hope to God, the Rams wake up and realize, as good as Suh is, they need a QB more and they take Bradford, that leaves Suh/McCoy for us. And I’d be happy as hell with either.
Don’t want Berry at 3…I’ll take Okung or McClain over him.
February 12th, 2010 at 1:02 pm
I would take suh or mccoy or mcclain or dezbryant or berry and okung
February 12th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Excuze me I would take suh or mccoy or mcclain or dez bryant over berry and okung!
February 12th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Steve:
I hear whispers Danny Snyder desperately wants Bradford. If he thinks the Lambs might take him, he may just be willing to pull off a trade with the Lambs which is win/win for the Bucs in landing a defensive tackle.
February 12th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
For those of you that don’t think the defense was better over the last six games, please look at my post on the Bucs message board. It very clearly shows we were better, especially at PPG allowed:
http://bbs.buccaneers.com/showthread.php?t=183052
February 12th, 2010 at 4:10 pm
who hoooooooooooo we werent getting slaughtered as bad the last six games, who hoooooooooooooooooooo what at team!
February 12th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
@Joe
Why would the Redskins trade up to 1 though when they know the top 3 teams aren’t likely to draft a QB? I know Snyder’s crazy but I bet Shanahan brings some common sense to that organization for once.
February 12th, 2010 at 5:18 pm
Steve:
1) Do we know the Lambs won’t draft Bradford? Obviously neither the Kittens or Bucs will draft a quarterback in the first round. You know how owners get when they get that quarterback stare in their eyes.
Plus, we’re talking Snyder here. The ultimate NFL fantasy football owner. Shoot, if Shanahan likes the kid you know Snyder won’t think twice about trading up.
2) What you stated about Spagnolo and other former d-coordinators being head coaches is very logical and there’s a history of evidence to support your premise. Normally I’d total agree with you. But remember the Lambs have drafted four defensive lineman in the first round in the past decade and only one (Howie’s kid) may pan out. The Lambs are to defensive linemen what the Kittens are to wide receivers.
While Spagnolo may want to draft McCoy/Sug, the front office may be gunshy in drafting a defensive tackle. Also, that offense of theirs is the pits. If they don’t get someone on offense soon, Jackson will be maimed for life. That’s all they have on offense.
Your logicial premises makes all the sense in the world. It’s also why I’m pretty confident you are correct. But I’m not totally sold the Lambs won’t draft Bradford. I’m also guessing neither is Snyder.
Trading up from No. 4 to No. 1 isn’t that big of a price either.