Manbeast Suh Versus Gerald McCoy
February 19th, 2010
"Man, Jim Bates would have loved me."
Many Bucs fan awaken each morning hoping the football gods bless Tampa Bay with the chance to draft one of the premier defensive tackles coming out of college: manbeast Ndamukong Suh or Gerald McCoy.
The consensus is that either one would be a major upgrade, although it might take a couple of years (isn’t that a scary thought).
But who is better, the manbeast or the Sooner?
Yesterday, NFL Draft guru Justin Pawlowski, a former Division I offensive lineman, came out of a dedicated three-hour Suh-McCoy film session breaking down both players with strong opinions.
Joe won’t spoil it for you. Check out Pawlowski’s analysis on the WDAE-AM 620 draft page.
Pawlowski also will release his detailed Commish’s Board (player rankings) for JoeBucsFan.com draft subscribers today or tomorrow.
February 19th, 2010 at 8:53 am
McCoy and Suh both played a Big 12 schedule, and basically faced the same competition all season. Against that competition, I think no one could argue Suh is the more dominant and explosive player.
I mean McCoy had 6 sacks all season , Suh had 5 sacks against Texas alone , lol.
I don’t even think it’s debatable.
February 19th, 2010 at 9:46 am
True enough about the sacks, but Pawloski makes a strong argument about McCoy’s talent being more suited to the Buc’s defense.
February 19th, 2010 at 9:53 am
Here is something to keep in mind about Suh and/McCoy:
Justin is right on about McCoy being the best fit for the Bucs defense — now.
Does anyone want to lay cash that Raheem the Dream will be around in 2012 (or if there is a 2011 season)? Remember that Raheem the Dream’s contract is up after this season.
This is not a trivial element to be dismissed.
February 19th, 2010 at 10:19 am
Take Joe Haden, Eric Berry or trade down.
February 19th, 2010 at 10:24 am
Teams are built based on players strengths .. Even though McCoy fits the traditional Tampa 2 … Suh would be worth altering the scheme to his strengths ..
Dont be so sure Tampa 2 will be our Base next year .. I hear the word hybrid thrown around often with Dominik and Morris .. If someone like Jerry Hughes falls to the Bucs in the 2nd .. Dont be surprised to see close to 1/3 of our plays being ran from a 3-4 .. Especially in passing situations
February 19th, 2010 at 11:14 am
Here is the thing about sacks and other stats when you measure Suh vs McCoy. Aside from that big game against Texas, Suh had I believe 7.5 sacks on the year. Now you can’t take away his big game because it really was one for the history books, but just pointing out that for most of the year Suh and McCoy were pretty identical when it came to sacks. But Suh has a ton more tackles and heres why. In an age where just about every college team platoons their defensive linemen, Suh rarely if ever comes out of the game. Now that is a good thing but also a bad one in some respects. It means of course that he is very durable and that he is in superb shape to be able to play a whole game. It also means that he has a lot of miles on his body already before he gets to the league. As Justin said he relys way too much on brute strength and not technique from what I have seen and that usually doesn’t translate well to the pros unless you are going to a team that two gaps like in a 3-4 defense. Now if we could some how magically draft Suh I think the right move would be to put him at left end. Thats what I see him as in a 4-3 defense and maybe he could become like a mix of Julius Peppers and Mario Williams. But if we are looking for an undertackle, my pick is definitely McCoy. He actually already has good pass rush moves. He played in a defense that allowed him to get off the ball and get up the field like you want an undertackle to do, whereas Suh played in a read and react defense. And he platooned at Oklahoma which means his body has less mileage on it.
The truth is I don’t think this is a Peyton Manning vs Ryan Leaf debate anyway. I like both guys and think both, barring injury, will have pretty good careers. But as far as fits go I think McCoy fits better here IF we are looking for an undertackle.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:21 am
Now a days, all teams are playing a form of hybrid to thier defenses. Gotta keep up with the Jones’. Nothing new there.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:39 am
Man the Glazers are really putting Raheem and company in a bad spot. They are supposed to “build through the draft” and play a young QB, yet only have short term contracts. Mission impossible really. If they don’t get any experienced wideouts for Mr. Freeman, and no AB, I think we can conclude that Raheem is merely a caretaker and the Glazers are laying low until they can move in another direction. No Raheem fan here, but thats grossly unfair to him, and likely a big reason we dont have any “name” assistants on the staff.
February 19th, 2010 at 11:55 am
Great stuff, Justin. I also think McCoy would be a great fit here. It’s funny how people scoff at his 6 sacks. 6 sacks is damn good from the DT position and that shows pass rush ability.
I think Suh and McCoy are the best 2 without a doubt. And if one of them are there at 3, you take them without hesitation.
February 19th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
if by “best fit” you mean yet another guy that gets bowled over against a physical running team , then you are right about McCoy.
See the game against Stanford and Toby Giehart for proof…
February 19th, 2010 at 1:30 pm
Radio,
Were gettin bowled over no matter what, thats a given………………physical running team or Atlanta’s third reserve back. were just all pretending this draft will actually mean anything. and presently there’s nuttin else to do except watch ice curling.
February 19th, 2010 at 2:15 pm
I wonder if the Dream is conducting this kind of in depth analysis as we speak? Any chance we could keep him home and let Justin make the selections?
February 19th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Here’s hoping the Rams and Lions think McCoy is better also !
February 19th, 2010 at 2:47 pm
A Radio MushMouth
Just wondering if you actually saw the OU/Stanford game? Because I happened to watch most of it and aside from a stretch where he went out with a minor injury McCoy was in the backfield most of the day. He ended up with 3 tackles and a sack which was a better stat line than Suh had in his bowl game. And while Gerhart ran well, he’s had a lot better games last year than the one he had against the Sooners.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:17 pm
Joe,
Look at this headline from PFT..
Holmgren says Browns will build through the draft
Domink set a trend, eh? I bet a whole lot more teams will be doing this prior to the lockout. Now if the Bucs will just dump Clayton.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Anybody ever heard of a Gm or Coach saying “were not going to build through the draft”. Don’t all the teams participate each year? Are they trying not to build their teams?
February 19th, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Eric:
George Allen.
Who was his son again?
February 19th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
BucFan South Tampa:
Don’t expect that this season, especially if Antonio Bryant leaves.
Mark Dominik admitted before last season — heard exclusively on Sirius NFL Radio’s “Movin’ the Chains with Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwan live from One Buc Palace — that he took a gamble in re-signing Michael Clayton. Dominik isn’t going to admit to such an expensive mistake that quickly.
If Clayton continues to be his normal self this season (rotten), he’s gone.
If Clayton could put together four or five games like he had against Dallas to open last season (truly a spectacular game), he could stink up the joint the rest of the season and keep his job. Hell, he can’t even put together three decent games in a year.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
Joe, you dug deep for George Allen, and you are correct. But wouldnt you agree that the “build through the draft” mantra is almost across the board in the modern era? Im just making the point that the Bucs havent invented some new way to establish a team. With good drafts they would have been “building a team” all along.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Joe, Is that the same .712 winning record, 5 division titles and 1 conf title “Bruce’s Daddy” George Allen?
Unfortunately, no SuperBowl win though.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:53 pm
Eric:
With the exception of Dan Snyder and to a lesser degree, Jerry Jones, yes.
Charley Casserly said recently on Sirius NFL Radio that the attitude among owners across the NFL has changed in the past three or four years. Most see the Cowboys and Redskins always spending money on free agents, often big-name free agnets, and getting nowhere. Then they see a team like the Steelers that is notorious for pinching pennies but also unmatched in player development, and are trying to pattern themselves after the Steelers, and to a lesser degree, the Patriots who mostly build through the draft (with the exception of Moss).
The general consensus, claims Casserly, across the NFL is that owners are no longer dropping wads of cash on free agents unless they have a specific hole to fill.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:56 pm
OAR:
George Allen was a helluva coach. A whack job, perhaps a dirty coach, but a helluva coach.
Joe remembers reading somewhere that in all the years Allen coached, only twice did he not have all three timeouts at a two-minute warning. That’s clock management. That’s preparation. That’s coaching.
This nonsense about people wanting to put Don Coryell in the Pro Football Hall of Fame turns Joe’s stomach. Joe grew up watching Coryell’s Cardinals in high school play Allen’s Redskins. Allen coached rings around Coryell.
Joe’s not saying Coryell wasn’t a good coach. He was a glorified quarterbacks coach. If they put him in the Hall of Fame, then Jerry Glanville should be in the Hall of Fame.
February 19th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Joe, I agree all around on that!
February 19th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
If I were counsel for the players association, Id be looking closely at a collusion grievance. That may tie in with with why Brooks wasn’t picked up. Surely somebody could have made use of him. Like Chucky remarked, older players with big contracts are getting screwed.